What's wrong with Sound Burst (Brd2, Clr2)?

[StealthyMark]

From the SRD:

Evocation [Sonic]
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2
Components: V, S, F/DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: 10-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

The character blasts an area with a tremendous cacophony. Creatures in the area take 1d8 points of sonic damage and must succeed at Will saves to avoid being stunned for 1 round. A stunned creature can’t act and loses any Dexterity bonus to AC. Attackers gain +2 bonuses to attack it.

Deafened creatures are not stunned but are still damaged.

No save? A 2nd level area effect spell for Clerics and Bards has two very good effects and offers no save? Sonic Damage plus stunning! IMO, stunning is the next best thing to being held.

Compare this spell to Glitterdust (Brd2, Sor/Wiz2). Cancels invisibility, Will save to avoid being blind. That's not that bad. You can still act, if you're blind.

Shouldn't allow this spell a Fortitude save for half damage (or nothing at all)? And a Will save to avoid being stunned? My Players are using this spell very often against low level warriors or even higher level Wizards. I'm thinking about either banning this spell completely or toning it down.

 

[Hypersmurf]

No save? A 2nd level area effect spell for Clerics and Bards has two very good effects and offers no save? Shouldn't allow this spell a Fortitude save for half damage (or nothing at all)? And a Will save to avoid being stunned?

Uh... it does give a Will save to avoid being stunned. That's the Will Partial bit under "Saving Throw".

The damage isn't much worse than the first level arcane spell Burning Hands - Reflex save for half of 5d4, versus no save for 1d8. Sure, Evasion effects don't work, but low level warriors don't have Evasion anyway.

Compare this spell to Glitterdust (Brd2, Sor/Wiz2). Cancels invisibility, Will save to avoid being blind. That's not that bad. You can still act, if you're blind.

Of course, the Sonic Burst stun only lasts for one round, even if they fail their save. Whereas the Glitterdust blindness lasts at least three rounds... and while they can act, they still lose all Dex bonuses, and attackers get the same +2 to attacks as if they were stunned.

And Sonic Burst is the only area damage spell the poor clerics get until Flame Strike, on the 5th level list...

-Hyp.

 

[StealthyMark]

The damage isn't much worse than the first level arcane spell Burning Hands - Reflex save for half of 5d4, versus no save for 1d8.

The arcane(*) caster has to be quite near to his intended targets.

*Low hit points, great risk for this guy; An arcane caster is supposed to have some good damage spells.

Whereas the Glitterdust blindness lasts at least three rounds... and while they can act, they still lose all Dex bonuses, and attackers get the same +2 to attacks as if they were stunned.

If you can act, you could cast Dispel Magic, or Dimension Door... If you're stunned, you're dead meat.

 

[StealthyMark]

Another point: Sound Burst is nearly an Mass Hold Monster. Shorter duration, same save DC as Hold Person, not even purely mental actions are allowed.

 

[green slime]

There is nothing wrong with it at all.

Trying to stun a high level mage with that spell will most likely be a waste of an action... Wizards have good will saves.

Clerics and bards have less feats and greater demands on other stats compared to the wizard/sorcerer, so their spells will most likely be easier to save against anyway, compared to an equivalent level wizard.

Really, in a level or two, when the novelty wears off, and they discover other new, exciting effects, I'm sure they'll be pasting the opposition with those new effects.

NPC Fighters are supposed to be canon fodder anyway.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Another point: Sound Burst is nearly an Mass Hold Monster. Shorter duration, same save DC as Hold Person, not even purely mental actions are allowed.

Although one of the biggest dangers of being Held is the Coup de Grace. Can't CDG someone who's stunned.

And one round isn't long enough for a full melee attack, generally - they're vulnerable to full ranged attacks, but if someone is close enough to be in melee with them already, they're close enough to be in the AOE of the spell...

The arcane caster has to be quite near to his intended targets.

Okay, compare it to Color Spray instead.

It does damage, Color Spray doesn't. But the consequences of missing the Will Save on Color Spray are worse. And Sound Burst is a higher level spell.

-Hyp.

 

[Madfox]

The spell only deals 1d8 damage and there is a chance for those in the area to be stunned for 1 rd. My players also thought this spell was very good, but during play they quickly realized that it was not nearly as good in practice as on paper. First of all, 1d8 damage is not enough to kill anything except perhaps the weakest of monsters. Secondly, stunning while very useful only lasts 1 rd and does not compare to being held (which equals to helpless). Thirdly, the spell is practically useless in a situation where you prefer to keep your pressence hidden. There are much more effective spells to prepare for priests (like e.g. silence 15 ft radius).

On a side note, since it is a sonic attack the bard could use his or her counter song ability for an incredibly good save.

 

[Ziggy]

While it's not a catch-all, i've found it pretty useful in a couple of situations:

1. When attacking invisible or otherwise hidden characters. While the burst isn't that big, its usually big enought to get them if you have a general impression of where they are.

2. To take out swarms of low-level fighters/monsters that swarm a cleric/paladin. Just hit the whole group, the paladin/cleric will usually make their save, the others not. Make sure you have the firepower to hurt them while they are stunned.

3. Against monsters where hold person doesn't work. Especially useful against big stupid monsters (Ogres etc.)

My best use of the spell where in RtToEE, where our paladin&cleric where on the ground, slowly bleeding to death, with 5 low-level gnolls ready to kill them. I targeted high (missing the PCs on the ground, and managed to stun the entire group (a bit lucky there). This bought enough time to get support into the area, healing the fallen characters.

.Ziggy

 

[sotmh]

My group has two clerics in it and both of us have tried to use this spell in the past. We found that it wasn't terribly powerful or useful, I think we ended up using it against an underwater fight with a ochre jelly once. Most of the time, it just got swapped out for a cure spell, though.

sotmh

 

[novyet]

Both the cleric in my old party and the bard in my new party have tried using this spell, and generally the results haven't been all that impressive. The cleric used it three times I think, and then never used it again, the bard has used it a few times, mostly against invisible creatures since it is his only area effect spell.