D&D General When the fiction doesn't match the mechanics

[overgeeked]

Technically, everyone gets death saves. But because having unconscious goblins around puts the players in a not-media-friendly spot as to how to deal with them, it's left up to the GM to apply when it makes sense.

Not really.

"MONSTERS AND DEATH
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.

Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters."

Depends on your definition of hitpoints... on which note!

I think the game world needs to acknowledge that high-level anything people can faceplant from the tallest tower in the land and just dust themselves off after. Similarly, that threatening someone with a dagger at their throat / crossbow at their face is actually really ineffective (especially because there is no condition for being helpless) - you need 10 friends with crossbows with you.

I'd rather go the other way and have diving off a 100-foot tower be instant death regardless of hit points. Same with daggers or crossbows to the throat.

 

[CleverNickName]

5E death saves make no sense. There's no narrative justification for the PCs being more immune to death than everyone else.

5E over-night full heals make no sense. There's no narrative justification for the PCs having superhuman healing powers..

Honestly? I don't think death saves were ever intended to make narrative sense*. I get the feeling that they were invented to address the "imminent death" issues of earlier editions, when you dropped to negative hit points (which were invented to address the "sudden death" issue of even earlier editions when you dropped to 0 hit points.) It's purely game mechanics, which were invented to address game mechanics, which were invented to address game mechanics.

Same thing for the full healing overnight. I get the feeling that it was invented to address issues of hit point attrition...an issue that was caused by hit point bloat in an earlier edition...which was caused by power creep of an even earlier edition...and so on.

At least the full healing overnight can be adjusted with the optional rules in the DMG. I don't think there's any such option for death saves.

*to be clear: I really wish it made more narrative sense. I really don't enjoy the hours-long "combat simulation mini-game" cannonballing right through the middle of the narrative.

 

[James Gasik]

Component costs and economics in general. In a land with very few diamonds a smaller diamond is worth more to the locals compared to a similar sized diamond in a land where diamonds are plentiful. This can be extrapolated to all items with a cost in D&D.

Related, how big is a 100 gp pearl if you're in the desert? Near the ocean?

 

[Shiroiken]

If you try to slit the throat of a helpless creature, you have to make an attack roll... and the best outcome is a critical hit.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Not really.

Yes, your quote is advice from a DMG sidebar. But the actual rules say 'Whenever you start your turn with 0 hit points, you must make a special saving throw, called a death saving throw...', not 'whenever a PC starts their turn with 0 hit points'. So the DMG is just clarifying that for NPCs, you should not bother most of the time.

I'd rather go the other way and have diving off a 100-foot tower be instant death regardless of hit points. Same with daggers or crossbows to the throat.

Alright, house rules are fine, but this IS the world vs the rules as written thread.

 

[overgeeked]

Honestly? I don't think death saves were ever intended to make narrative sense*. I get the feeling that they were invented to address the "imminent death" issues of earlier editions, when you dropped to negative hit points (which were invented to address the "sudden death" issue of even earlier editions when you dropped to 0 hit points.) It's purely game mechanics, which were invented to address game mechanics, which were invented to address game mechanics.

Same thing for the full healing overnight. I get the feeling that it was invented to address issues of hit point attrition...an issue that was caused by hit point bloat in an earlier edition...which was caused by power creep of an even earlier edition...and so on.

At least the full healing overnight can be adjusted with the optional rules in the DMG. I don't think there's any such option for death saves.

*to be clear: I really wish it made more narrative sense. I really don't enjoy the hours-long "combat simulation mini-game" cannonballing right through the middle of the narrative.

Exactly. 5E is not a life simulator, it's a (super)heroic fantasy adventure game. A heap of mechanics just don't make sense on their face if you try to make narrative sense of them. Just like every other edition of D&D. Some the mechanics and narrative are more in harmony, others less so...but not many less so.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Let me tell you about Warhammer 40K fiction vs the actual TT wargame.

 

[overgeeked]

Yes, your quote is from a DMG sidebar.

PHB, p198.

But actual rules say 'Whenever you start your turn with 0 hit points, you must make a special saving throw, called a death saving throw...', not 'whenever a PC starts their turn with 0 hit points'.

The PHB is addressed to the player. And to the player's character. Not to the referee or the referee's monsters.

So the DMG is just clarifying that you should not bother most of the time.

Again, that quote is from the PHB.

 

[James Gasik]

Healing from 0. I'm all in favor of getting players back in the action, as a game isn't much fun if you're not playing, but it's absurd to watch. Fighter takes a multiattack to the face or a lucky crit, falls down. Rather than needing a supercharged healing spell* to get him back up, "cure light papercut" is sufficient to the task.

*Not that we really have those until heal itself is on the table, as the game also doesn't really support the idea of a powerful healer.

Short rests. Taking a one-hour lunch break recovers resources and lets you heal. Now what about those of us who only get 30 minute lunch breaks? Or can't even take them?

Only PC's having character classes and abilities. Related, the disparity between NPC hit points and PC's. Your 1st level Fighter has 1d10 hit dice. The average town guard has 2d8.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Again, that quote is from the PHB.

Alright, it's been a while, it's from the PHB. It's still GM advice, not a rule, though, as noted by 'most DMs have their monsters die'.

And if we're sticking to it being a rule, then it's talking about monsters, not NPCs in general.

The PHB is addressed to the player. And to the player's character. Not to the referee or the referee's monsters.

Can NPCs never get dis/advantage then? Because the dis/adv section also uses 'you', addressing the reader?