When you upgrade intelligence...

[Infiniti2000]

It's a huge hassle, as the primary reason. Not letting it be a huge hassle makes it totally inconsistent. Buried in the huge hassle part of it are some really tough questions. I also have conceptual problems with it, but I admit those should not impact other people's decisions on their houserules.

 

[Crothian]

It's a huge hassle, as the primary reason. Not letting it be a huge hassle makes it totally inconsistent. Buried in the huge hassle part of it are some really tough questions. I also have conceptual problems with it, but I admit those should not impact other people's decisions on their houserules.

So, character boosts Int from 13 to 14...gains level+3 in skilll points in addition to normal skill points, spends skills points. I'm failing to see the hassle.

 

[Infiniti2000]

That's not a hassle, mid-combat? Some people can perform very complex math in their head, it does not mean that the general population can (even gamers, which as we all know are much smarter than everyone else). More importantly, it does not mean that people want to, even if they can.

Character gets poisoned, loses 4 Int, which skill points are lost?

 

[Crothian]

Character gets poisoned, loses 4 Int, which skill points are lost?

That's easy, I as DM choose. It takes about 30 second to jott down a note in my notebook and the player just doesn't know until he uses the skill.

You have a point, but if they can't deal with skill point lose from this, then they probably can't deal with the hitpoint lose of constitution lose. But I as a DM require my players to think and if they can't handle that.....

 

[Infiniti2000]

Hit point loss is MUCH easier. You only deduct/add HD*X, where X is the difference in modifiers.

Skill point loss/gain is far more difficult, particularly for the DM. First of all, I doubt there are that many DM's who actually closely monitor the PC's skill ranks. More importantly, why don't you let the PC decide what ranks he gains? Can't he use fox's cunning to gain a few ranks in UMD for a moment or two, even cross-class? That's the absolutely best use of that house rule, and you don't allow it?

Do you, say, suddenly strip a full skill, like Tumble? That's really harsh, especially when the rogue tries to Tumble, and then . . . what happens? Technically, he can't even try 'cause he's untrained. It's really undefined, though I suppose just having it fail is acceptable.

I really don't like the twist with the hidden skill point loss/gain.

Btw, you obviously seem quite capable and competent enough to do it on the fly. I salute you for it. I'd personally rather use that extra processing power for something else. Specifically, I think 30 seconds can bring an exciting, tense combat to a screeching halt. IMO, if it takes more than 5 seconds, it's too long. If it takes you 30 seconds for one PC, it would take a lot longer all the PC's, NPC's, etc. in some special situations (like AMF, or area dispels, mass fox's cunning).

 

[Crothian]

Skill point loss/gain is far more difficult, particularly for the DM. First of all, I doubt there are that many DM's who actually closely monitor the PC's skill ranks. More importantly, why don't you let the PC decide what ranks he gains? .

Well,. you just jumped to a huge and wrong conclusion. I said when they lose skill points they don't choose what they lose. Not that they can't choose when they gain them.

 

[Crothian]

Btw, you obviously seem quite capable and competent enough to do it on the fly. I salute you for it. I'd personally rather use that extra processing power for something else. Specifically, I think 30 seconds can bring an exciting, tense combat to a screeching halt. IMO, if it takes more than 5 seconds, it's too long. If it takes you 30 seconds for one PC, it would take a lot longer all the PC's, NPC's, etc. in some special situations (like AMF, or area dispels, mass fox's cunning).

A DM should never stop the game when he figures out something. So, while I choose what the fighter loses skill points wise, I'm having the next person in the iniative order making their actions. Any notes and changes like that I need to figure out I do while a player is going. Players usually take a bit of time 30 second to a minute or two themsleves to make their rolls, choose their spells they are casting, etc. Even when other players have to figure things out they should be doing while everyone else goes and not on their own turn. If a player is about to increase his int, he should know ahead of time where he places those skill points. Its what i expect from my players and its what they perfer to do.

 

[Bront]

That's not a hassle, mid-combat? Some people can perform very complex math in their head, it does not mean that the general population can (even gamers, which as we all know are much smarter than everyone else). More importantly, it does not mean that people want to, even if they can.

Character gets poisoned, loses 4 Int, which skill points are lost?

I'm just talking about permanent changes, like inherant bonuses from wish or books, or from gaining a level. Not damage/enchantment.

 

[moritheil]

Why not?

I also am wary of this, for different reasons than Inf states. What happens if someone uses a +2int item to gain extra skill points for a number of levels so as to qualify for a PrC, then sells/trades the item off and never wears one again? Should they be permanently rewarded for wearing the item for a few levels? If they wore a +2con item, they wouldn't keep the hit points after they got rid of the item, so I hope you can see my reluctance.

While I do like to see characters invest in Int, I prefer that actual stats go into it at creation. That seems like a more honest and dedicated approach.

 

[Philip]

I do retroactive increases, but only for permanent increases. Headbands of Intellect and Potions of Fox's Cunning just won't cut it.

I also require people to lose skills whenever they permanently lose Intelligence. There's a reason brain damage sucks so much in real life.

That's why I do as well. No more difficult bookkeeping in order to ascertain at what point intelligence increased to calculate the proper amount of skill points. No weird 'skill points on demand' when people swap Int boost items.