Where does True20 break?

[Jorunkun]

A while back, a thread here brought to my attention the True20 System and I've been reading the revised edition of the ruleset for about a week now. I'm well impressed and am considering it for my next campaign - thanks!

To those of you who have played True20: Have you found aspects of the system to be problematic / breakable?

I'm thinking of using it for a fairly low-magic low-fantasy sandbox campaign. My players aren't overly concerned with optimal builds, rules-bending and abusing spells, so I'm really only worried about issues that would show up in a non-powergamer way of playing. In particular:

1. Do the combat and damage systems support somewhat heroic low level playstyles?

My games tend toward more gritty encounters and my players don't blindly charge everything in their path, but when push comes to shove, I want the heros to be able to put up a fight. How erratic/plannable is combat with evenly matched foes (do players die a lot, are specialised characters hard to kill), and how smoothly does the parade/damage-track system work in practice (resolution speed, bookkeeping)?

2. How high-magic / powerful is the magic system?

I'm aiming for a low-magic world where spellcasters are rare. I really like the more loose, custom-tailorable approach to magic True20 offers. I'm hoping for spellcasters to have a versatile use of powers, without them becoming dominant. Are there obvious ways for spellcasters to break the game?

3. How well does the levelling-system hold up beyond level 10?

In 20 years of DnD, my campaigns never went beyond 12th level and I don't want the hassle of balancing high-level play. How far do you suggest I go?

I realise that these questions are hard to answer in a void. I am familiar with all versions of DnD, GURPS, Ars Magica and a number of other systems; so compare to these if you like. Thanks in advance.

J.

 

[jdrakeh]

I'm convinced that it handles superhuman or supernatural powers of any sort poorly compared to other 'generic' systems, though it doesn't become a real issue in actual play until the level of unreality approaches that of D&D or base level supers (e.g., your typical superhero comic book stuff). I'm also 99% certain that this was intentional, otherwise True 20 would compete directly with M&M, which would be bad business for Green Ronin.

Now, for low-magic, low-unreality, stuff the system works like a dream and, as advertised, is a lot less hassle than your typical d20 variant. The powers system, OTOH, is riddled with exceptions, particularly in regard to damage, which can become a real nightmare when combined with the True 20 damage system.

I should note that when I first played True 20, I ended up completely misinterpreting how powers worked, so I revisted the system after an overwhelming "You're doing it wrong!" response posted here. After utilizing the powers system correctly (and applying tips gleaned from other ENWorld posters) I still found that standard d20 handled more unreality with fewer exceptions and more intuitive mechanics.

Today, I'd heartily recommend True 20 for anything other than campaigns with high magic or a proliferation of supernatural powers. There are, simply, many available systems that I feel handle these things better.

 

[Psion]

1. Do the combat and damage systems support somewhat heroic low level playstyles?

My games tend toward more gritty encounters and my players don't blindly charge everything in their path, but when push comes to shove, I want the heros to be able to put up a fight. How erratic/plannable is combat with evenly matched foes (do players die a lot, are specialised characters hard to kill), and how smoothly does the parade/damage-track system work in practice (resolution speed, bookkeeping)?

My initial concern with the system is that the conditions incurred by the toughness would be a hassle to track.

In actual play, I found that the problem was more that players wanted to avoid negative conditions (and hence, combat) altogether, which I think is a slight pressure to avoid more "heroic" modes of play.

 

[Darrin Drader]

I'm not a huge fan of the damage system, but there is an alternate system created by a guy who goes by the handle Baduin over at the True20 boards that works much better in my opinion, and it doesn't go as far to discourage combat.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Answers:
1) Absolutely. I ran four 1st level heroes assaulting a small keep guarded by 30 guys, and all coming out alive and victorious. The guards were mostly level 1 minions, though the commander was a level 3 heroic character. The heroes were hurt but alive after one long, running fight throughout the keep.
The system is dangerous but Conviction and some good planning does a great job of keeping the heroes alive. When they run out of Conviction, though, they need to start worrying.

If you do decide not to use True20's base damage rules then there are a number of variant. Baduin's system is very popular, and there are many other options around.

2) There are a few specific powers that are high-magic in tone (invisibility, incorporeality, mental assault powers). It's easy to simply disallow those. The other problem is Elemental Blast, which scales into being very, very nasty at high levels but is really crappy for the first couple of levels.
Healing via the Cure spell is extremely easy. A level 1 adept with a +1 key ability has a +5 to the check. By taking 5 (which he can do under any circumstances) he'll succeed on the check and the recipient will be healed.

3) Pretty well. There is a bit of an issue thanks to the Take 5 rules: a 20th level Warrior can hit almost anything automatically by taking 5. But this doesn't become an issue until about level 16, so feel free to go as high as you need to.
If you want to go epic, I recommend requiring characters to multi-role, limiting characters to a maximum of 20 levels in any given role.

 

[Brutorz Bill]

I'm not a huge fan of the damage system, but there is an alternate system created by a guy who goes by the handle Baduin over at the True20 boards that works much better in my opinion, and it doesn't go as far to discourage combat.

Are you using Baduin's system or the Core True20 system for your own Reign of Discordia home games?

 

[Jorunkun]

Thanks for the replies so far - exactly what I was looking for. If you have more troublesome/broken power (spell) or feat combos, please let me know.

J.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Are you using Baduin's system or the Core True20 system for your own Reign of Discordia home games?

I use Baduin's system. In fact, I used a lightly modified Baduin's system for tracking starship damage in the book - the guy is even in the credits.

 

[dead]

Sorry to necro this thread, but I was wondering if anyone had access to the variant damage rules for True20 by Baduin ("Baduin's system") that are mentioned in this thread. There is a link in a post above that takes you to the old True20 forums but they don't exist anymore by the look of it - the link just redirects to the Green Ronin online store.

Thank you

 

[Aldarc]

Sorry to necro this thread, but I was wondering if anyone had access to the variant damage rules for True20 by Baduin ("Baduin's system") that are mentioned in this thread. There is a link in a post above that takes you to the old True20 forums but they don't exist anymore by the look of it - the link just redirects to the Green Ronin online store.

Thank you

That's a name I haven't heard in a long time. I was active on the Green Ronin forums and played a lot of True20, but I'm not sure if I have any copy of their house rules on my computer. I will try digging around the net to see if I can find something, maybe in the Wayback Machine or Archives.