D&D 5E Which parts of D&D came from Tolkien?

[Parmandur]

I am not sure anyone can really ever say with certainty.

Gary Gygax himself, on this forum no less stated he never read Hobbit or Lord of the Rings, that he hated the writing style and could not make it through the books.

He also said/implied that he pulled things out of various mythologies and adapted them and that is where many of his monsters came from in oD&D.

Is that believable? That Gary went read old Germanic folklore and just happened to create Treants that looked just like Ents and had a name that is 99% similar? Not sure anyone can say. Gygax said he didnt steal ideas. Im not sure anyone here has the proof to say otherwise.

My pure opinion is he borrowed lots of stuff because that is a heck of a lot less effort than thinking he created so much completely on his own, but I cannnot prove it one way or another.

I am quite certain Gygax said he read and enjoyed the Hobbit, but wasn't a huge fan of LotR: but I'm certain he read them, or more vitally other members of his circle did. D&D was collaborative from the start.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

So as a compiled list.
Dwarves

Not remotely. Cf Ring of the Nibelung, amongst others.

Elves (esp the split between high/gray/sylvan elves)

Some of the flavoring probably is. But elves (and dark-elves/drow) predate Tolkien by many centuries, even as fair and long-lived beings. See Snurri Sturluson

Half-elves (sorta)

Probably not.

Goblins/Goblinoids

No. D&D's goblins bear no resemblance whatsoever to Tolkien's works.

Ogres as Trolls (or perhaps the idea of Trolls as giant-kin)

Nope. Long presence in folklore as powerful and fairly stupid beings.

Magic Rings (esp the Ring of Invisibility)

Not even close. Ring of the Nibelung is yet again a prominent counterexample (as are myths of Sigurd/Siegfried before it).

Talking, cunning dragons

Many counterexamples - Chinese dragons for example.

Rangers (esp the 1e version of it)

Somewhat. Concept of the woodsman as a mythological archtype predates Tolkien by many centuries. One well-known example: Robin Hood (or his Merry Men).

Ropes of Climbing

Doubtful. Can't recall a specific reference, but featured in a number of fairy tales IIRC.

 

[clearstream]

Not remotely. Cf Ring of the Nibelung, amongst others.

It's clear Tolkien melded lore from many traditions. However, I feel like the question here is whether it is Tolkien's version that influenced D&D?

Some of the flavoring probably is. But elves (and dark-elves/drow) predate Tolkien by many centuries, even as fair and long-lived beings. See Snurri Sturluson

D&D Elves are Tolkien Elves. No question.

Probably not.

Can you point to a a half-Elven character of concrete lineage prior to Aragorn? And what about the Charisma bonus etc? All very kingly/Aragorn-like.

No. D&D's goblins bear no resemblance whatsoever to Tolkien's works.

Huh? They're very close to the goblins in The Hobbit. What dissimilarities are you thinking of?

Nope. Long presence in folklore as powerful and fairly stupid beings.

Agreed!

Not even close. Ring of the Nibelung is yet again a prominent counterexample (as are myths of Sigurd/Siegfried before it).

Sure, but that was one ring (heh). Tolkien created multiple with different powers. I think the latter informed D&D more than the former.

Many counterexamples - Chinese dragons for example.

Chromatic dragons come from Tolkien, while the Metallic dragons come from other traditions.

Somewhat. Concept of the woodsman as a mythological archtype predates Tolkien by many centuries. One well-known example: Robin Hood (or his Merry Men).

Again, it came to D&D through Tolkien.

Doubtful. Can't recall a specific reference, but featured in a number of fairy tales IIRC.

What?! You don't recall the climb down to the marshes, where the Elven rope untied itself on command?

 

[Morrus]

I was referencing that old infamous Dragon article about how Gandalf was just a 5th level magic user.

Yes, I know.

 

[Pauln6]

D&D elves are not based on Tolkien but the original sylvan, high, and gray elf fluff was ported in wholesale.

Many of the class restrictions for early d&d such as no elven rangers, half elven clerics, and no dwarf wizards, do seem hemmed in by what we see in Tolkien. There's no logic to them unless you apply Tolkien character themes. Unearthed arcana moved the goal posts to include some more logic and the game pushed outwards ever since. Paladins seem more aligned with Arthurian chivalric tales in 1e.

Cleric magic seems based off numerous religious texts, including classics like Moses parting the red Sea, calling a plague of locusts, killing firstborn children, Jesus healing and raising the dead, feeding the five thousand, walking on water, and so on, but also includes Elrond treating Frodo's poisoned wound. Even the Chariot of Sustarre is from a religious tale.

 

[Guest 6801328]

All this together makes D&D its own thing. It doesn't really feel like LotR unless you work really hard to make it feel like that. But why would you do that?

As another poster said, Adventures in Middle Earth from C7 does exactly this and it's well done, although I personally prefer their original, non-5e "The One Ring" game.

 

[Remathilis]

Not remotely. Cf Ring of the Nibelung, amongst others.

Some of the flavoring probably is. But elves (and dark-elves/drow) predate Tolkien by many centuries, even as fair and long-lived beings. See Snurri Sturluson
Probably not.

No. D&D's goblins bear no resemblance whatsoever to Tolkien's works.
Nope. Long presence in folklore as powerful and fairly stupid beings.
Not even close. Ring of the Nibelung is yet again a prominent counterexample (as are myths of Sigurd/Siegfried before it).
Many counterexamples - Chinese dragons for example.
Somewhat. Concept of the woodsman as a mythological archtype predates Tolkien by many centuries. One well-known example: Robin Hood (or his Merry Men).
Doubtful. Can't recall a specific reference, but featured in a number of fairy tales IIRC.

The question was "What did D&D borrow from Tolkien" vs. "What did Tolkien create whole cloth". Lots of the things you bring up existed before Tolkien, but its Tolkien's version that inspired the D&D variants that followed.

Put another way, if you asked "Which parts of Starfinder came from Roddenberry", you'd get a similar list (androids, planetary confederacy, transporters) of things that aren't completely unique to Star Trek, but certainly the Star Trek version was probably the one on the designer's mind.

 

[Onussen]

It’s well known that halflings were originally called hobbits before TSR was forced to change the name by the Tolkiens. Same, IIRC, with ents and treants.

I thought it was Saul Zaentz that threatened to sue/sued TSR over the use of the terms Hobbit, Balrog, and a few others. He had the rights to much of Tolkien's Legendarium

Weapons with names and magical powers ("Sting")

I thought that Gygax's use of named weapons, and magical weapons, was based on history-- Swords like Durandal and Joyeuse -- and literature-- Curtana (also a historical name), Naegling, Hrunting, and from the books of Poul Anderson ("The Broken Sword" and "Three Hearts and Three Lions". Gygax listed these in the notorious Appendix N in the original DMG. They are worth reading too.)

Tolkien borrowed his ideas from the same sources as everybody else. His works have really shaped, or warped, popular perception of many aspects of Germanic folk-lore. Not always in a good way either.

That said, D&D elves are a lot more like Tolkien elves -- no, they are Tolkien elves-- than classic folklore elves and elf types (like Lutin, Duende etc...). Gygax can deny it all he wants ( or wanted) but I think I'll believe my lying eyes instead of him on this one.

 

[Lylandra]

I'd like to debate whether D&D elves are 100% Tolkien. Sure, the division into sylvan/grey/high says Tolkien, but the Drow/Dark Elves seem more likely inspired by the Norse Dark Elves ("pitch black") compared to Tolkien's "Dark Eldar". And before we got Faerie-like "elfs", fey-like elves/elbs/alfs have been part of northern european folklore for centuries.

Rangers I'd say are definitely Tolkien inspired as other legendary woodsmen didn't cast spells, especially healing spells.

Stereotypical dwarven characteristics are also drawn from Tolkien, I suppose. (Don't remember whether snow white's dwarves or the Nibelung were that much into drinking... even if the latter were fascinated with gold and jewellery)

There's also the common theme of humans slowly gaining dominance in the world after the reign of elves which is a theme in LotR.

Wraiths as fairly powerful and life-draining spirits could stem from the Ring-Wraiths.

 

[tardigrade]

I'd like to debate whether D&D elves are 100% Tolkien. Sure, the division into sylvan/grey/high says Tolkien, but the Drow/Dark Elves seem more likely inspired by the Norse Dark Elves ("pitch black") compared to Tolkien's "Dark Eldar". And before we got Faerie-like "elfs", fey-like elves/elbs/alfs have been part of northern european folklore for centuries.

From what I remember the Norse 'dark elf'/'svartalf' was pretty interchangeable with dwarf, wasn't it? And 'drow' were basically the Orkney version of trolls.