D&D 5E Which parts of D&D came from Tolkien?

[Maxperson]

In AD&D there are aspects of Aragorn's capabilities - for instance, his ability to heal wounds and diseases - which a paladin does better than a ranger. (Not coincidentally, either - Aragorn's abilities reflect, in part, stories of holy kings, and so do a paladin's abilities.) In UA a paladin gains the ability to make his/her alliies resistant to fear, which is also an ability that Aragorn enjoys (eg otherwise Gimli probably could not have passed the Paths of the Dead).

Aragorn doesn't heal wounds and diseases with a touch, but rather with knowledge of herbs and medicine, so Paladin doesn't model him well at all. As for Gimli, a person can be talked down through logic and/or a simple charisma check. No need for special abilities to account for Gimli's change of heart.

In 4e a ranger is not a particularly good model for Aragorn at all - Aragorn is neither a particularly notable archer nor a two-weapon skirmisher, and he does not travel with an animal companion. For the same reasons I don't think 3.5, or really even 3E, rangers model Aragorn particularly well.

Dunedain are also superb trackers, have gifts that allow them to communicate and influence animals(wild empathy), were skilled at hiding(camouflage), knew the tricks of their enemies(favored enemy), and had great endurance(endurance). Woodland stride is also something that fits Aragorn well. Was the 3e Ranger perfect? No, but then it really wasn't a class that was purely about Aragorn, but rather a class that was inspired by him.

The only non-4e D&D edition I can think of where a high CHA supernaturally inspires one's allies is 5e (with a paladin's saving throw aura). In AD&D CHA only affects NPCs. In 3E there may be prestige classes or non-PHB classes I'm not familiar with where high CHA inspires allies, but I don't think there is such a thing for PHB classes.

Aragorn didn't supernaturally inspire anyone. He just inspired with a supernaturally high charisma, as modeled by simple charisma checks, diplomacy checks, loyalty and reaction bonuses, etc.

In any event, the 4e warlord is a very good start for Aragorn. Aragorn can rouse his allies' spirits with a word (which is what a warlord's Inspiring Word does), and he can lead and inspire them in combat (which is what a warlord's "micromanagement" of movement and attacks does). A STR paladin is an alternative approach to Aragorn within that system, although outisde of heroic tier is going to be rather supernatural compared to Aragorn as written by JRRT.

He didn't rouse spirits with a word. He did raise morale on rare occasions with speeches and a high charisma, though. He also didn't so much warlordy stuff in combat at all. He did no micromanagement of his allies in the books.

 

[pemerton]

Aragorn doesn't heal wounds and diseases with a touch, but rather with knowledge of herbs and medicine, so Paladin doesn't model him well at all.

"The hands of the king are the hands of a healer." And, from the last page of Bk 5 ch VIII:

[M]en came and prayed that he would heal their kinsmen or the friends whose lives were in peril through hurt or wound, or who lay under the Black Shadow. And Aragorn arose and went out, and he sent for the sons of Elrond, and together they laboured far into the night. And word went through the City: "The Kng is come again indeed."​

Aragorn and the sons of Elrond aren't more skilled as physicians than the keepers of the Houses of Healing. And the people think that the king has come aren't recalling a folktale that the king would be a great surgeon. The saint king, who heals with a touch, is is a fairly well-known motif.

He didn't rouse spirits with a word. He did raise morale on rare occasions with speeches and a high charisma, though. He also didn't so much warlordy stuff in combat at all. He did no micromanagement of his allies in the books.

I don't know how much 4e play experience you have, but I'm going with "little to none". A warlord doesn't "micromanage" allies. S/he provides various inspirational bonuses, which are typically expressed by way of adjustments to the action economy (comparable to a 5e fighter's Action Surge, but not self only), by way of bonuses to various rolls, or by way of healing and some condition removal.

From Bk 2 ch V:

With a bound the Balrog leaped full upon the bridge. Its whip whirled and hissed.

"He cannot stand alone!" cried Aragorn suddenly and ran back along the bridge. "Elendil!" he shouted. "I am with you, Gandalf!"

"Gondor!" cried Boromir and leaped after him. . . .

The Company stood rooted with horrer staring into the pit. Even as Aragorn and Boromir cam flying back, the rest of the bridge cracked and fell. With a cry Aragorn roused them.

"Come! I will lead you now!" he called. . . . They stumbled wildly up the great stairs beyond the door.​

If you want moments like that to occur in a 4e D&D game, in which one character - through valiant leadership - rouses other PCs to action, or lifts fear or daze effects, a warlord is a good vehicle for it.

Aragorn didn't supernaturally inspire anyone. He just inspired with a supernaturally high charisma, as modeled by simple charisma checks, diplomacy checks, loyalty and reaction bonuses, etc.

In traditional D&D play none of these affect PCs, for a start, and so don't do a particularly good job of modelling Aragorn's inspiring leadership.

If you want to play a 4e PC who, in the play of that game, emerges as an inspiring leader in the mould of Aragorn, having a high CHA won't do it. A STR paladin (particularly at Heroic tier), or a warlord, or some sort of combination of the two, will. (A CHA paladin is too overtly supernatural to be a good model for Aragorn, even at Heroic tier.)

 

[Maxperson]

"The hands of the king are the hands of a healer." And, from the last page of Bk 5 ch VIII:

[M]en came and prayed that he would heal their kinsmen or the friends whose lives were in peril through hurt or wound, or who lay under the Black Shadow. And Aragorn arose and went out, and he sent for the sons of Elrond, and together they laboured far into the night. And word went through the City: "The Kng is come again indeed."​

He uses herbs unknown to common healers to work his medicine. In no place is it implied that he uses magic hands to heal through a touch. You are stretching things past the breaking point to imply that.

Aragorn and the sons of Elrond aren't more skilled as physicians than the keepers of the Houses of Healing.

Yes. Yes they are. It's part of Tolkien's world that the elves and Dunedain are FAR more knowledgeable about such things than the other men. There's even an example of it in the books.

And the people think that the king has come aren't recalling a folktale that the king would be a great surgeon. The saint king, who heals with a touch, is is a fairly well-known motif.

The King returning has nothing to do with how he can heal at all.

I don't know how much 4e play experience you have, but I'm going with "little to none". A warlord doesn't "micromanage" allies. S/he provides various inspirational bonuses, which are typically expressed by way of adjustments to the action economy (comparable to a 5e fighter's Action Surge, but not self only), by way of bonuses to various rolls, or by way of healing and some condition removal.

Shifting others, giving them attacks, and so on IS micromanagement. Aragorn does nothing of the kind.

With a bound the Balrog leaped full upon the bridge. Its whip whirled and hissed.

"He cannot stand alone!" cried Aragorn suddenly and ran back along the bridge. "Elendil!" he shouted. "I am with you, Gandalf!"

"Gondor!" cried Boromir and leaped after him. . . .

The Company stood rooted with horrer staring into the pit. Even as Aragorn and Boromir cam flying back, the rest of the bridge cracked and fell. With a cry Aragorn roused them.

"Come! I will lead you now!" he called. . . . They stumbled wildly up the great stairs beyond the door.​

Great example of Aragorn winning initiative and Boromir going second. Aragorn didn't make Boromir act. Nor is leading the hobbits out of Moria anything other than a normal example of leadership.

If you want moments like that to occur in a 4e D&D game, in which one character - through valiant leadership - rouses other PCs to action, or lifts fear or daze effects, a warlord is a good vehicle for it.

Anyone can jump into into a battle followed by anyone else, regardless of class. Anyone of any class can say, "follow me" and have others tag along behind. Warlord isn't even remotely required to perfectly emulate what Aragorn did.

 

[pemerton]

He uses herbs unknown to common healers to work his medicine. In no place is it implied that he uses magic hands to heal through a touch. You are stretching things past the breaking point to imply that.

I would conjecture that the overwhelming number of commentators on LotR would agree with me on this point.

The King returning has nothing to do with how he can heal at all.

Yes it does. This is how Aragorn is known by the people to be the rightful king returned. Because he can heal with a touch.

Here is one discussion that a minute of Googling brought up: https://stephencwinter.com/2017/03/20/the-hands-of-the-king-are-the-hands-of-a-healer-aragorn-in-the-houses-of-healing/.

Anyone can jump into into a battle followed by anyone else, regardless of class. Anyone of any class can say, "follow me" and have others tag along behind. Warlord isn't even remotely required to perfectly emulate what Aragorn did.

Notice that in your example the deeds of the first character make no difference to the deeds of the second. That is not emulating a leader - that is like Bart Simpson telling Santa's Little Helper "Sniff that other dog's butt!".

Aragorn makes a difference. So does a warlord. (This is what you, I think quite oddly, call "micromanagement".)

 

[Maxperson]

I would conjecture that the overwhelming number of commentators on LotR would agree with me on this point.

Yes it does. This is how Aragorn is known by the people to be the rightful king returned. Because he can heal with a touch.

And yet he returned without healing a single person by touch.

Here is one discussion that a minute of Googling brought up: https://stephencwinter.com/2017/03/20/the-hands-of-the-king-are-the-hands-of-a-healer-aragorn-in-the-houses-of-healing/.

That's nice, but the story doesn't back him up. Aragorn couldn't heal black wounds of the Nazgul. At best he slowed it down through his use of herbs, keeping Frodo alive(barely) until Elrond could use his superior healing ability to save him. The people recognized the King because of his SKILL with healing, not because of his miracles at healing. He used herbs and knew more than the healers of Gondor, as appropriate for a Dunedain trained by elves.

Notice that in your example the deeds of the first character make no difference to the deeds of the second. That is not emulating a leader - that is like Bart Simpson telling Santa's Little Helper "Sniff that other dog's butt!".

You're the one who tried to use an example of a brave, accomplished fighting going into a battle as an example of Aragorn being a warlord. He wasn't emulating Aragorn, but rather just moving second.

Aragorn makes a difference. So does a warlord. (This is what you, I think quite oddly, call "micromanagement".)

Aragorn made no difference there. Boromir might not have attacked on his own, but that doesn't make Aragorn a warlord. There have been countless instances in games that I've played over the years where my PC would not have attacked had another player not had his PC attack first. Once the fight was on, though, my PC immediately joined his companion. There is no warlord class necessary in the least to explain Aragorn and those(or any other) instances in the books.

 

[billd91]

I would conjecture that the overwhelming number of commentators on LotR would agree with me on this point.

That doesn't make them right.

Yes it does. This is how Aragorn is known by the people to be the rightful king returned. Because he can heal with a touch.

I agree that Tolkien is drawing on the tradition of a monarch's touch being a healing touch, but I think he's also turning it on its head. Aragorn doesn't heal with just a touch. He's a healer because he knows healing skills that were preserved through elven lore lost to the masters of the houses of healing in Gondor (though they had technical proficiency). He fits Ioreth's comments about the hands of the king being the hands of a healer not because he has some mystical power, but because he returns elven lore (embodied in the healing lore) to Gondor and because having the compassion to work to heal his people, rather than just order them around, marks him as the man with the cares of a true king.

If he had the magical touch you're saying, then there'd be little to no point mentioning that he labors long into the night with Elrond's sons. The fact that they too are laboring long into the night, I believe, indicates that they too are healing people with the skills they hold in common with Aragorn, learned in the same place and from the same teacher.

 

[Arilyn]

This argument has a problem. There is no class in DnD which can emulate Aragorn very well. If Aragorn was a game character, he would be in a different system, probably a classless one. I don't think he's a warlord. As a ranger, he has no spells, no animal companion, and I doubt he has a favoured enemy.

Aragorn is a skilled woodsman, an extraordinary tracker, a good swordsman and a strong leader. He's also very tough and lives longer than lesser humans. He is the rightful king, and there's a mystical connection which comes with the role.

As a DnD character, what comes closest? Not really any of them. In 5e, making him a fighter with a wilderness background, makes just as much sense as a ranger.

Aragorn needs a new game.

 

[pemerton]

That doesn't make them right.

It doesn't make them wrong, either.

I agree that Tolkien is drawing on the tradition of a monarch's touch being a healing touch, but I think he's also turning it on its head. Aragorn doesn't heal with just a touch. He's a healer because he knows healing skills that were preserved through elven lore lost to the masters of the houses of healing in Gondor (though they had technical proficiency). He fits Ioreth's comments about the hands of the king being the hands of a healer not because he has some mystical power, but because he returns elven lore (embodied in the healing lore) to Gondor and because having the compassion to work to heal his people, rather than just order them around, marks him as the man with the cares of a true king.

If he had the magical touch you're saying, then there'd be little to no point mentioning that he labors long into the night with Elrond's sons. The fact that they too are laboring long into the night, I believe, indicates that they too are healing people with the skills they hold in common with Aragorn, learned in the same place and from the same teacher.

Elrond and his sons are healers - Elrond is the only one able to save Frodo after the latter is stabbed by the Morgul-blade. But treating this elven lore as techincal proficiency is a complete misreading of Tolkien. Tolkien is against technical proficiency, as a measure of virtue or an underpinning of wellbeing, at almost every point. Saruman, with his mind of machines, is a villain. Sauron, who is a master crafter and erects great structures, is a villain.

The capacity of Elrond and his sons, and of Aragorn, to heal, isn't a sign of their technical proficiency. It's a sign of their natures, their places in the order of things, and their fidelity to that order. Aragorn brings hope ("Estel") because of who he is - the rightful king, the reuniting of the sundered lines of Elros and Elrond - not because he has secret technical knowledge. Elven lore isn't a mode of knowing (and JRRT is not a gnostic). It's a mode of being. (Which Bilbo tries to explain to the other hobbits when they arrive in Rivendell.)

Tolkien's book is an attack upon modernity, and the technical proficiency that is its hallmark - not a celebration of it. (If you want modernist rather than reactionary fantasy in your D&D, REH is a good example.)