White Wolf: What's the Deal!?

[mhacdebhandia]

I don't even mean just the community, though! Where are the publishers?

Aside from the WhiteWolf LiveJournal, and the fact that (as far as I can tell) just about everyone on staff at White Wolf is at GenCon right now . . . do you go to RPG.Net? Because the White Wolf folks do. Freelancers and permanent staff alike post in threads about their games (and others, of course) over there frequently.

Sure, their website should be better. But, frankly, their website still has some utility. The vast majority of game companies can't even manage that.

 

[wingsandsword]

It's rather simpler than that. Cam communications generally take place over email, as they have since the club's inception.

LARP is less popular than it was, but this is true for independent games as well.

Well, it's been a few years since I have been doing WW Larping, but I remember that from their public online presence (i.e. webpages and message boards, not e-mail) made me think they were all but defunct.

For about three years in the earlier part of this decade (late 2002 through mid 2005) I played and was on staff helping run a decent size independent Vampire larp. At our peak we had around 40 to 50 players meeting every fortnight. The founder of the LARP had spent a couple of years involved with the Cam in Pittsburg in the late 90's and wanted to bring that fun back home.

Well, it had been a few years and he was never one much for e-mail or other online contacts, so he didn't have a whole lot of luck finding Cam contacts when he founded the game (and the people he'd played with a few years before had disappeared or were out of larping). We looked around online and found pretty much but webpages that were years out of date or unupdated since the 90's. Our larp was independent and not part of the Cam because to the best we could tell at the time the Cam was either semi-defunct or really wasn't interested in new member players or games.

Seriously, for an organization as large as they are they had an atrocious web presence and it was like we couldn't have affiliated with them if we wanted to.

 

[thalmin]

Is Hunter fully released or simply have some early sells at Gen Con?

Hunter released to stores with a street date of August 14.

 

[JackSmithIV]

I post there quite often, actually. Lots of us do. Are you sure you took a good look?

I looked around, yes, and you're right, I did notice staff members in the forums. But the forums aren't well orginized, or well populated. I'd check it out now to make a more concise point, but my connection timed-out every time I tried in the past hour.

For one thing, White Wolf paying a writer means that the writer makes more than lunch money. It also means that production gets paid too. These are not insignificant costs. That said, WW could probably afford to release more MET, if they didn't expect every line to support itself through its own profits.

It also means that marketing and promotion is suffering because no one is motivated into going out and selling to product proactively so that people are out there playing the game.

I've already addressed how the Cam works, communications-wise. Otherwise, the forums have a fair bit of activity, though the observation that chatter tends to be spread out among multiple sites is correct. Shadownessence is the go-to fan run site, in my opinion.

I went to this site to check it out, but you can't view any of the content without signing up. This is terribly not-condusive to new players or people interested in getting into the game and it's community.

Uh, that's not really true. The RSS feed has a ton of previews and multiple announcements of the impending release.

The RSS feed? You mean I had to check/subscribe to the RSS feed to find out about the product launch? It's not on the main page for the company. It's not even on the main page for the game itself!

Gaming groups are not "the gaming community." The gaming community is a mix of meetups, stores, clubs and messageboards. Gaming groups are private. I'm involved in several gaming groups, but few of their members are part of the "gaming community."

The Camarilla is actually pretty big. There are multiple webchat games -- in fact, WW pioneered this form in many ways. Aside from the chats they host, there are usually a bunch of fan-run chat games going on at any given time. WW doesn't to RPGA organized play, though.

I have to say, that's an excellent point. But I've been to stores. I've been to three hobby shops in Northern New Jersey, two gaming stores in New York City (big place for a game to have no players in), and a few in Westchester county New York, too. I've always seen product, people always say they sell it, and that they don't know anyone who plays it. I've searched online, quite a bit. And while you may be completely correct, it just seems like (in my experience) that these games don't have any sort of strong community presence or opportunity for play if you're

Have you considered emailing the company?

Yes, and I still might! I'm just sad that I couldn't find anything on my own. I suppose that's gonna be my last ditch effort. I'd love to promote their game, but I feel like they don't even care much about it. They just released Hunter: the Vigil and all they're talking about in the Livejournals is "Exalted". I actually can't find Hunter on their livejournal!!

-IV

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

Can't get into the site today.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I think that WoD is... like others have said, less accessible. The fan base is more of a rabid underground and the books are quite fun to read.

I've looked at a few of the newer books (the Created set looked neat and so did the god-one), but they just didn't capture me into jumping in. Part of it is not wanting to invest heavily into games I know I'll never play. Part of it is shelf space.

But, really, towards the end of oWoD, they started with using different fonts IC for different characters, which was neat... until they started getting fonts that were terribly hard to process quickly. A lot of nWoD is also written in what I dub InsanoFont. It's all nice and stylish, but if I have to focus to read it, it's just not fun.

As an aside, oWoD Changeling might have been useless to me, but the art was great. nWoD Changeling looked like a better game, but it probably has the worst art I have ever seen in a gamebook. It was actually a huge turn off for me. (Not that art makes it a worse game in any way, but when flipping through a book at Borders, the ease of reading/processing and the art are immediate concerns.)

 

[JackSmithIV]

I've looked at a few of the newer books (the Created set looked neat and so did the god-one), but they just didn't capture me into jumping in. Part of it is not wanting to invest heavily into games I know I'll never play. Part of it is shelf space.

But that's what's the worst part of the whole equation: World of Darkness is a very accessible, playable game. Horror is a much more familiar, comfortable genre for the average person to explore than fantasy, the game system is more more simple and teachable, and it takes place in a modern world. Overall, it's such a relatable game. D&D is my game. I love it, and I will stay loyal to it being the greatest, now and forever. But if I wanted to get an average joe interested in exploring RPGs as a hobby, I would start him off with World of Darkness.

It's very teachable, it's fun, it's simple, easy to understand, interesting, and the books are very well written. I wouldn't be so upset about this whole White Wolf issue if their product sucked. But it doesn't. I love their product. Concept is great, game is good...

I mentioned that I have a quickstart booklet with an adventure and pregenerated characters for Hunter. One of the really excellent, glossy-cover packages. It even has a blank character sheet in the back if you had the core book and wanted to expand. I've already scheduled two gaming sessions at my home for two different groups to come by and try it out. Both have veteran games, but just for this event, I asked them to bring a non-gamer friend who might be interested. I'm excited, and have complete confidence that I'll be able to teach these people the game without confusion, and that I can thoroughly engage them.

I just worry that if they continue on exploring RPGs through World of Darkness, they'll run into a brick wall in terms of their growth in the hobby!

-IV

 

[Vocenoctum]

But that's what's the worst part of the whole equation: World of Darkness is a very accessible, playable game.

Actually, I don't really care for their systems. I've played a few of the oWoD games, and am in Exalted, and the system seems vague, cludgy and arbitrary.

I adapted Hunter: The Reckoning to D20 Modern and it went much better.

Horror is a much more familiar, comfortable genre for the average person to explore than fantasy, the game system is more more simple and teachable, and it takes place in a modern world. Overall, it's such a relatable game.

Depends on the setting, really. Hunter was a fun game, but it wasn't exactly the vampire hunter most folks expect from such a game. The other games also have issues. D&D has plenty of issues too, but fantasy hero is much easier for a relatable GAME, than the issues vampire and such raise.

D&D is my game. I love it, and I will stay loyal to it being the greatest, now and forever. But if I wanted to get an average joe interested in exploring RPGs as a hobby, I would start him off with World of Darkness.

In theory Call of Cthulhu is a very easy game to drop into, in practice not as much. Maybe a spy game would be a better intro, but just like in MMO's, it's Fantasy all the way for the target audience.

I just worry that if they continue on exploring RPGs through World of Darkness, they'll run into a brick wall in terms of their growth in the hobby!

-IV

Well, part of the thing with introducing folks to RPing, is to find out what they want to be, and what kind of stories they want to experience. Fantasy hero is easily to understand. Vampires might seem too "edge" for them. Hunters, depends on how they play.

 

[Mercule]

I find this thread to be odd. It was actually White Wolf's web site and boards that moved me from news groups to BBs. I always found the writers to be at least present, if not regular contributors -- which is cool, I visit the boards to get a break from work, but it is their work.

One of the reasons I like to cheer for Mouseferatu is because he first caught my attention working for WWGS and often had something workwhile to say on the boards. I know he's a free-lancer, but the idea is still there.

I haven't been there much because I'm doing pure D&D, right now, so maybe things have changed. Or maybe expectations are just higher.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

In theory Call of Cthulhu is a very easy game to drop into, in practice not as much.

Depends on whom you ask. In Germany, Call of Cthulhu is a huge hit - and judging by the amount of shelf space it seems to get in gaming stores, not far behind D&D in sales...