Who's your favorite Villain?

[Deset Gled]

Good guy? Palpatine? Do tell . . .

While I do see points where Palpatine was right, on the whole he seems to be the classic patient evil plotter out for power (and not all that much else).

The short version:

The Star Wars movies (both trilogies) are essentially history as written by the victor. They are told from the point of view of an unreliable narrator, who paints the defeated enemy as pure evil, while the winning side is pure light. In reality, neither side is completely good or bad. However, when you look at true actions that took place and ignore most of the characterization used to brainwash the viewer into believe who is right at wrong, I believe that the galaxy was probably better off as an Empire than the Republic.

The Galactic Republic is really a corrupt and inefficient government, as is clearly shown in Phantom Menace. The Jedi Order is actually an oppressive religious collective, positioning themselves as the only legally recognized religion, and exerting control over the government while refusing to allow the government to have any control over them.

Palpatine was simply desperate to reform the government and stop the prosecution from the Jedi. To do so, he engineered a war that could be fought with no citizens of the Republic needing to fight; only droids and clones would battle, and the Jedi were basically brought down from the inside. After he gained power, he led what was essentially the most peaceful 20 year span in the history of the galaxy (note the long series of wars that predate the prequel trilogy, and endless string of confilcts that arise after the New Republic takes over).

I will admit Palpatine used some less-than-saintly methods, but I believe he was essentially a neutral good character, only delving into questionable acts when absolutely necessary. Also, the amount of his evil (and the amount of evil inherent in the Jedi Order) varies quite a bit based on what material you consider. Deciding what material is canon and what isn't is a key part in determining if Palpatine is a villain or protagonist.

 

[TarionzCousin]

I will admit Palpatine used some less-than-saintly methods, but I believe he was essentially a neutral good character, only delving into questionable acts when absolutely necessary. Also, the amount of his evil (and the amount of evil inherent in the Jedi Order) varies quite a bit based on what material you consider. Deciding what material is canon and what isn't is a key part in determining if Palpatine is a villain or protagonist.

"Neutral Good"???
Is his appearance too subtle of a hint that he is not the hero of the story?

 

[cmrscorpio]

I second the vote for Dexter Morgan.

Ozymandias is an awesome villain in the graphic novel.

But, my favorite has to be Robert Neville in the novel I am Legend. We follow the monster the entire book, watching him murder people indiscriminately in their sleep without remorse because he thought he was doing the right thing by putting people out of their misery and protecting himself. Then he is caught, and he realizes what he has become.

 

[Heathen72]

The short version:

The Star Wars movies (both trilogies) are essentially history as written by the victor ... Deciding what material is canon and what isn't is a key part in determining if Palpatine is a villain or protagonist.

I don't quite agree with the initial point - this is fantasy, not historical fiction, not reality - so for the most part I assume that all we are shown is true. If we are to assume otherwise it all becomes somewhat pointless - you might as well write a new movie. From what we are shown, the basis for the assertion that Palpatine is a villain is sound. Neutral Evil, I would suggest.

But even were I to agree with you, I certainly find myself hard pressed to find a Neutral Good reason for the destruction of Alderaan. One might compare it to the nuclear destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and look for 'Good' reasons there, but in that instance the US was at War with Japan *. Every indication in Ep IV is that the Alderaan is peaceful (and not at war with the Empire) and the Empire did not hesitate to destroy it, ostensibly as a 'test' for the Death Star's capabilities.

*I would suggest that arguments as to the morality of the bombings in Japan shouldn't be entered into here, given the forum prohibition against political discussion, and the fact that it would derail the thread entirely!

 

[Cyronax]

The short version:

The Star Wars movies (both trilogies) are essentially history as written by the victor. They are told from the point of view of an unreliable narrator, who paints the defeated enemy as pure evil, while the winning side is pure light. In reality, neither side is completely good or bad. However, when you look at true actions that took place and ignore most of the characterization used to brainwash the viewer into believe who is right at wrong, I believe that the galaxy was probably better off as an Empire than the Republic.

The Galactic Republic is really a corrupt and inefficient government, as is clearly shown in Phantom Menace. The Jedi Order is actually an oppressive religious collective, positioning themselves as the only legally recognized religion, and exerting control over the government while refusing to allow the government to have any control over them.

Palpatine was simply desperate to reform the government and stop the prosecution from the Jedi. To do so, he engineered a war that could be fought with no citizens of the Republic needing to fight; only droids and clones would battle, and the Jedi were basically brought down from the inside. After he gained power, he led what was essentially the most peaceful 20 year span in the history of the galaxy (note the long series of wars that predate the prequel trilogy, and endless string of confilcts that arise after the New Republic takes over).

I will admit Palpatine used some less-than-saintly methods, but I believe he was essentially a neutral good character, only delving into questionable acts when absolutely necessary. Also, the amount of his evil (and the amount of evil inherent in the Jedi Order) varies quite a bit based on what material you consider. Deciding what material is canon and what isn't is a key part in determining if Palpatine is a villain or protagonist.

What alignment is Stalin?

As for SW, Vader needlessly killed 'younglings,' (failing) commanding naval officers, and slaves in his harem.

Palpaptine's action led to many gungans dying. He was responsible for unprovoked planetary genocide. He was also the direct cause of all of the dead Jedi. Fine ... the Jedi were soldiers in a war, but still.


C.I.D.

 

[Vaslov]

Cruella DeVille

 

[coyote6]

That is an excellent call, though of course super-obscure for the non-Batgeeks among us. Man, what a great run in Detective that was.

I haven't read my Batwoman #0 yet. How's does it hold up?

IIRC, it was basically a primer on the character and a bit of a recap on who Kate is, who the supporting cast is, etc. It was good, but short. The art was still awesome; from what I've seen, even the issues JHWIII isn't on art are going to look good.

Rucka was one of my favorite current comics writers, especially for something street-level-ish like a Bat-book, so I'm going to miss him. But I'm hoping the new run will be good.

 

[Olli]

Well I can´z believe nobody thought about him, but I think Montgomery Burns is an excellent villain. He got it all, even winged Monkeys!!!!

 

[El Mahdi]

"Neutral Good"???
Is his appearance too subtle of a hint that he is not the hero of the story?

This was a photo spread about by the Republic as propaganda meant to demonize Palpatine. His disfigurement was actually caused by a Jedi assassination attempt. Despite his injuries, Palpatine continued his fight against the Jedi, motivated solely by a need to end the repression and suffering of the Galaxy. A true and selfless Hero if there ever was one.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

Mike Mearls

Never forget what he wrecked! Damn him! <shakes fist aimlessly>