D&D 5E Why do so many DMs use the wrong rules for invisibility?

[Matt Vincent]

And when that doesn't work, I describe how magical invisibility is more like Predator invisibility, and it's easy for anyone to see the distortion effect unless you take a second to slow down and let it sync up with the background.

Nice. Same here.

 

[MarkB]

So when you state that "creatures inside a darkness spell know each other's exact locations", I disagree. The rules don't state that anywhere. If you walk into an area of darkness with an iron golem and it hasn't been activated yet, I would rule that you have no way of knowing it's there (barring other magic). It doesn't breath, it isn't moving, it is literally making no sound.

The only way to detect the golem is to stumble into it since the only way to perceive it would be to see it, which you cannot do.

If the golem activates because you enter the area and it starts moving, you can hear it and now you may know something is out there. You may even have a pretty good idea of it's location depending on the situation, but it's not automatic. The way I run it, you may not know exactly where it is until it attacks. At that point you can target it with disadvantage (because you are effectively blind).

I agree that this does leave a lot up to the DM and different DMs are going to rule it differently. That may bother rules lawyers (not saying you are one or that it's even a bad thing) but it's just part of the structure of 5E.

The other thing the rules don't really cover is ambient noise - they seem to assume that creatures' movements can be heard clearly because the encounter is occurring in a completely quiet area.

But what if you're battling near a waterfall, or in an echoey cave complex, or in the midst of a larger raging battle, or in a driving rainstorm?

In a lot of the environments a party is likely to be fighting in, there will be at least some ambient sound, which may be enough to mask the sounds of even unstealthy movement, or to be mistaken for enemy combatants when there are none. Try to incorporate such circumstances into situations involving blindness, darkness and invisibility and it can become un-simple very quickly, especially since the stealth rules are largely silent upon the matter.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Thus rendering the darkness pointless.

Not true.

Spellcasters can't charm or command you, their blur and mirror image spells are negated, and they can't cast misty step to escape. Fighters can't use Protection style. Rogues can't use Uncanny Dodge. Evokers can't use Sculpt Spell.

No-one can use the Dodge Action.

Ranged Attacks at close range do not suffer disadvantage.

Also, something important and often overlooked: if you are in darkness and you move away from a foe then they cannot make an attack of opportunity against you.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Why do so many DMs use the wrong rules for invisibility?

Because there are no 'right' rules.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

But what if you're battling near a waterfall, or in an echoey cave complex, or in the midst of a larger raging battle, or in a driving rainstorm?

I guess that's why there is a GM.

In all seriousness, the rules don't explicitly include it, but I think it is madness not to assume that there is a rule, "If you can't see it or hear it or smell it or otherwise sense it then you don't know it's there." I think this the point of Oofta's post above.

 

[CapnZapp]

there is no consensus on what the RAW is.

That is what I call a profound and complete design failure.

Unless creating incomprehensible rules were the intent.

Since I don't believe the WotC designers to be that inept, I choose to believe they intentionally created a system that could not be used clearly and consistently.

Why? Because this neatly deflects criticism, and makes potentially everybody happy.

 

[CapnZapp]

No-one can use the Dodge Action.

Of course you can use the Dodge Action.











(It will be useless since it changes nothing, but you can take the action)

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Not true.

Spellcasters can't charm or command you, their blur and mirror image spells are negated, and they can't cast misty step to escape. Fighters can't use Protection style. Rogues can't use Uncanny Dodge. Evokers can't use Sculpt Spell.

No-one can use the Dodge Action.

Ranged Attacks at close range do not suffer disadvantage.

Also, something important and often overlooked: if you are in darkness and you move away from a foe then they cannot make an attack of opportunity against you.

Also, if you Alert, then Darkness is as good as Blur for you.

Mobile, Alert Shadow Monks rock.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

(It will be useless since it changes nothing, but you can take the action)

Ok, you got me there. You don't gain any effects from taking the Dodge action.

Also, if you Alert, then Darkness is as good as Blur for you.

Ugh, the phrasing of that feat is why this thread exists. "Other creatures don’t gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being hidden from you." Creatures don't get advantage from being hidden from you; they get advantage from being unseen by you. If they are hidden then they are unseen, but they can be unseen without being hidden.

 

[Lanefan]

That is what I call a profound and complete design failure.

Unless creating incomprehensible rules were the intent.

Since I don't believe the WotC designers to be that inept, I choose to believe they intentionally created a system that could not be used clearly and consistently.

Why? Because this neatly deflects criticism, and makes potentially everybody happy.

While I wouldn't be quite that hard on them - I can't see any designer intentionally setting out to make a bad rule - I wonder if this is a result of the playtesting not coming to any consensus either (or giving lots of conflicting recommendations) and the end-result rules just reflecting that. Note this is pure speculation on my part.

Lanefan