D&D 5E Why do so many DMs use the wrong rules for invisibility?

[Angerguy]

I am greatly enjoying this thread, the fight between RAW and Realism is an eternal battle in dnd that never gets boring

 

[Wepwawet]

They could write pages and pages detailing invisibility and hiding in the PHB and people would still argue rule readings like horny lawyers...

How hard is it to simply apply common sense?

Then again, common sense is the least common of all the senses...

 

[Helldritch]

The designed rules for invisibility are at best sloppy.
I don't know how many posts debate on this single rule. There are so many opposing positions and all of them are logic. My simple advice is:"Use whatever you wish depending on the circumstances."

Here are some examples.
A) A non stealthy lone mage casting invisibility to escape the party? Use the rules.
B) A non stealthy mage casting invisibility to escape the party in a room full of combat around? Don't use the rules. Why? Check this.

The battle had been raging on for many minutes as both parties were fighting each other. Then everything stops. Everyone looks in the direction of a lone invisible novice mage.
"We know where you are!" said his enemies.
"You did not take the hide action you dope!" added his friends.
The wizard then knew that the God of rule lawing was against him...

 

[Mercule]

4. English. Dude, it's hard when it comes to rules. Just see "Attack" v. "Attack action," v. "Extra Attacks" for an example. You hear "Invisibility" and you have associations different than the specific rule.

This. I'll skip the pages of arguments and just chime in with my expectation that when something is invisible it's, you know, invisible. I don't know that I really care that much about what RAW is, other than as a rough framework for my rulings.

The question actually reminds me of the 3.5 darkness spell, which my group jokingly referred to as the dimness spell because a dimmer switch is a far cry from actual darkness. I think it took two uses of the spell (at least one of which was by enemies) before we all found it so absurd that we just house-ruled that darkness actually made things dark.

 

[JonnyP71]

A) A non stealthy lone mage casting invisibility to escape the party? Use the rules.
B) A non stealthy mage casting invisibility to escape the party in a room full of combat around? Don't use the rules.

And that's how it should be done. Simple common bleedin' sense...

End of argument.

 

[Barolo]

IMHO the rules for hiding are quite clear, but they are also counterintuitive. That is why a lot of people have problems interpreting the hiding rules, because they expect the rules to make sense. Once you let go of that kind of baggage and only look at what the rules text actually says, discerning the RAW is simple.

I would not recommend running hiding by RAW though, since the rules are less than good. Going by common sense about when you think hiding should be possible and calling for a stealth check when needed works much better.

Going by RAW alone, one could point that the classic "rogue sneaking past a guard's back" is impossible because there is no facing. Just saying...

 

[dagger]

% chance of detecting invisible based on level?

No, once you go invisible you are hidden unless they have a way to see you. Maybe true sight, tremor sense, see invis or whatever. Basically when a pc/monster/whatever goes invisible and then moves 30 feet no one knows where they are. They might hear them move away if its quite enough (not in combat), but even then you will not know which hex they are in.

 

[Oofta]

The designed rules for invisibility are at best sloppy.
I don't know how many posts debate on this single rule. There are so many opposing positions and all of them are logic. My simple advice is:"Use whatever you wish depending on the circumstances."

Here are some examples.
A) A non stealthy lone mage casting invisibility to escape the party? Use the rules.
B) A non stealthy mage casting invisibility to escape the party in a room full of combat around? Don't use the rules. Why? Check this.

The battle had been raging on for many minutes as both parties were fighting each other. Then everything stops. Everyone looks in the direction of a lone invisible novice mage.
"We know where you are!" said his enemies.
"You did not take the hide action you dope!" added his friends.
The wizard then knew that the God of rule lawing was against him...

Which is why I keep pointing out (quite possibly futilely) that nowhere in the rules does it state that "if you have not taken the hide action everyone knows where you are". There is no "hidden" condition in 5E. You can take the hide action to evade detection, that does not mean that you are automatically detected if you have not taken the hide action.

Is the wizard is leaving tracks in the snow? Splashing through water? Wearing tap dance shoes while running across concrete? Enemies likely know where he is. Running away across a stone surface while a storm rages overhead while the howling wind nearly deafens everyone? Not so much.

If you have Bob the One Man Band
View attachment 80943

vs Fluffy the Cat
View attachment 80944


Walking around in a pitch black room, I suspect you will know the position of Bob long before you know the position of Fluffy. Well unless it's feeding time, or Fluffy is caterwauling male in which case all bets are off.

The situations where you know the location of someone you can't see is up to the DM. If you want to use 4E's idiotic (in my opinion) rule that everyone knows where you are unless you are hidden feel free.

I'd rather not play a game with binary black and white rules where every situation must be answered by the almighty book with lawyer-like precision.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Are you people done arguing yet? Come to any solid conclusions?

What's that? No? Wow, that's surprising! You'd think that after the same thread appearing 37 times over the past 3 years that things would have either been hammered out by now or people would have just given up arguing because there's no actual conclusion.

But you're still at it? Good for you! Although I gotta say it must be exhausting running headlong into that wall still waiting for it to break!

 

[seebs]

I once saw a genuine dispute about invisibility rules, to wit: If you make a door invisible, can people see the room behind it when it's closed?

This was a serious argument on which people had differing opinions.