Why I dislike Milestone XP

[Oofta]

So in theory by knowing that leveling is tied to number of encounters overcome (if not a specific number), I could modify my play to engage with more encounters per session in order to speed up character advancement.

Well, yes and no because it depends on how you define encounter. If you talk to the butcher, the baker and the candle stick maker that doesn't not mean you just had 3 significant encounters. If I track it at the encounter level, I just jot down some summary notes after the end of the game. I may have some set pieces/encounters in mind when the game starts but that's no guarantee of what direction the players will take the game.

Much like the pirate's code, it's more of a guideline really. Being that fuzzy about how things work won't work for everyone of course, but for campaigns that don't have real story arcs it was the simplest solution I could come up with that rewards all pillars of D&D.

 

[iserith]

Well, yes and no because it depends on how you define encounter. If you talk to the butcher, the baker and the candle stick maker that doesn't not mean you just had 3 significant encounters. If I track it at the encounter level, I just jot down some summary notes after the end of the game. I may have some set pieces/encounters in mind when the game starts but that's no guarantee of what direction the players will take the game.

Much like the pirate's code, it's more of a guideline really. Being that fuzzy about how things work won't work for everyone of course, but for campaigns that don't have real story arcs it was the simplest solution I could come up with that rewards all pillars of D&D.

Right, you defined what you meany by "encounter" upthread, so assuming the players have some notion as to that, plus the fact that getting through more such encounters will result in character advancement, I'm essentially incentivized to seek out those kinds of situations as quickly as possible. Assuming leveling up at a good clip is my goal.

 

[Oofta]

Right, you defined what you meany by "encounter" upthread, so assuming the players have some notion as to that, plus the fact that getting through more such encounters will result in character advancement, I'm essentially incentivized to seek out those kinds of situations as quickly as possible. Assuming leveling up at a good clip is my goal.

You have to resolve the encounter, so what difference would it make? You can't just say "Talking to the leader of the rogue's guild is an encounter so I'll check that one off." You have to find the leader, convince his lackeys you're worth talking to, have a discussion with them, negotiate a price for the information you seek and so on. Just barrelling into his quarters (assuming you know where they are) saying "hi!" and then leaving doesn't buy you anything.

If by "seek out those kind of situations" you mean play the game in a way that advances the story for the group, then yes. Guilty as charged. I want people actively engaged in building the story.

 

[iserith]

You have to resolve the encounter, so what difference would it make? You can't just say "Talking to the leader of the rogue's guild is an encounter so I'll check that one off." You have to find the leader, convince his lackeys you're worth talking to, have a discussion with them, negotiate a price for the information you seek and so on. Just barrelling into his quarters (assuming you know where they are) saying "hi!" and then leaving doesn't buy you anything.

If by "seek out those kind of situations" you mean play the game in a way that advances the story for the group, then yes. Guilty as charged. I want people actively engaged in building the story.

Sure, but things like, say, spending session time on shopping or hanging around taverns ordering breakfast are worth nothing in terms of advancement (in general), so my goal would be to get to it in order to advance as quickly as possible. Assuming that's my goal which I think is reasonable one.

 

[Satyrn]

If by "seek out those kind of situations" you mean play the game in a way that advances the story for the group, then yes. Guilty as charged. I want people actively engaged in building the story.

[MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION], are you trying to encourage Oofta to formalize this method? I can see the foundation of one in what I just quoted.

Like, give 1 XP per "significant encounter," and a level every 5-10 XP (or whatever)



. . . perhaps 2 XP for "surviving a hostile encounter without resorting to violence."

 

[Caliban]

Sure, but things like, say, spending session time on shopping or hanging around taverns ordering breakfast are worth nothing in terms of advancement (in general), so my goal would be to get to it in order to advance as quickly as possible. Assuming that's my goal which I think is reasonable one.

If he can't "game the system" to advance faster, he won't enjoy it. He doesn't want to engage in the story, he just wants to "win".

Which is a valid playstyle, but one that will likely be frustrated with milestone or chapter based advancement - because it will feel like they have no influence over that aspect of their character.

 

[Satyrn]

If he can't "game the system" to advance faster, he won't enjoy it. He doesn't want to engage in the story, he just wants to "win".

Which is a valid playstyle, but one that will likely be frustrated with milestone or chapter based advancement - because it will feel like they have no influence over that aspect of their character.

In milestone or chapter based advancement, wouldn't his influence over that aspect of his character would come with his choice to pursue a milestone or end a chapter as quickly as possible?

 

[iserith]

[MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION], are you trying to encourage Oofta to formalize this method? I can see the foundation of one in what I just quoted.

Like, give 1 XP per "significant encounter," and a level every 5-10 XP (or whatever)

. . . perhaps 2 XP for "surviving a hostile encounter without resorting to violence."

No, just trying to think about how I would perceive the described approach as a player in that game. What am I being incentivized to do? How would I prioritize my goals to optimize character advancement? etc. I don't even favor one method over another, just one the players can understand and that supports the goals of play of the given game. I'm even find with session-based advancement as long as I know how many sessions I need to show up to in order to make the next level. (I'd probably create a nerdy character going for the Perfect Attendance Award.)

I tend to set up my own games to be very strong on theme and whatever mechanics I'm using for the given campaign (including character advancement) are set up to reinforce the theme so as a player in my games, you'd be incentivized to play in a way that further reinforces it. The effect is cumulative in my experience. Like in my Planescape game, it's the most Planescapey game I've ever played (having been a fan since the 90s) - and this despite none of the players knowing anything about the setting at all - because I've tweaked the dials of D&D 5e to encourage those outcomes.

I'd be interested to hear who else does this sort of thing so we can compare experiences.

 

[iserith]

In milestone or chapter based advancement, wouldn't his influence over that aspect of his character would come with his choice to pursue a milestone or end a chapter as quickly as possible?

I don't recommend accepting people's assumptions about how people they don't know actually play.

It's certainly very possible to both optimize one's character advancement and also be "engaged in the story," whatever that means. If the advancement system and "the story" are in sync, it works even better.

I would have no issue with milestone XP or story-based advancement so long as I was aware of the which events or challenges gave out milestone XP or which significant goals resulted in levels when completed.

 

[Caliban]

In milestone or chapter based advancement, wouldn't his influence over that aspect of his character would come with his choice to pursue a milestone or end a chapter as quickly as possible?

It's a matter of feeling in control. Unless the DM is running one of the books where the milestones are set in stone and you can predict them, you can feel a lack of control because only the DM knows for sure what qualifies as a "significant encounter" or a "milestone" or "end of chapter" event. You can't really track your progress, you have to trust the DM to give you level ups. Some people have no problem with this, while others do.

He strikes me as someone who very much wants to be in control of things, and automatically tries to assume control. Telling other people how they should debate (i.e. "that's a weak arguement, you shouldn't use it" or "these people aren't contributing to the discussion in way I like, you should block them"), or the way he has been interrogating Oofta and trying to get him to quantify the level advancement in a game he's not even playing.

It's all pretty typical of a "Win the game" attitude instead of a "play the game" attitude. For some people it's all about the race to the end, and not the journey itself. Different styles of play.