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D&D 5E Why is There No Warlord Equivalent in 5E?

Epic Meepo

Adventurer
A speculation 5e Warlord would need to be written within 5e's mechanics and paradigms.

But again to me the biggest hurdle is that with as a class or subclass...the Warlord would never be a lot of the pain space to be fully complete in one book unless it was the Nentir Vale setting guide.

Even the battle master wasn't finished and completed with necessary maneuvers until Tasha's.
Is the battle master finished and completed with necessary maneuvers, though? The battle master feels a bit like a demo of a really cool subsystem that was never actually released in full. If we had a complete battle master subsystem, I wonder if this thread would even exist.
 

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Yaarel

He-Mage
What do you mean "gave"? The Wizard / Magic User has had all the psionic effects as spells in their repertoire way before psionics even existed in the game as thing.

If anything... the psionics system horned in on Wizards and stole their functionality, not the other way around. ;)
By that logic, 3e Paladin and 3e Ranger horned in on the 1e Fighter.

Even 1e Cavalier and 1 Barbarian were already divvying up the Fighter.

3e Druid horned in on the 1e Cleric.

Heh. Turns out, 3e needed a Sorcerer to horn in on the Wizard, to justify the absurd amount of page-count that the Wizard was hogging.
 


Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
I dunno... maybe there just aren't enough people who want those sacred cows slain? Maybe the number of people hung up on the Wizard "getting everything" isn't big enough to warrant a change? Don't ask me. I have no idea
I think you are coming at it backwards.

The number of people hung up on the "Wizard getting everything" is small.

The number of people hung up on "every other fantasy archetype save the Warrior Cleric not getting half the treatment of the Wizard" is massive.

Wizard Hatred vs Wizard Envy

Where's my ranger spells? Where's my paladin villain? Where is the warlock monsters? Eye of Ruin? Venca? Another Wizard Bad Guy? I guess you don't want my money.
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
What I'm getting at there is that Exploits and Spells were the same mechanic with different set dressing. There's a lot of spells out there that could just be martial in nature, but there's also some that might have desirable effects that are more supernatural...but just like artificers justify their effects as being object-related, a "warlord" could justify their effects as being mundane.
The vast majority of spells are completely unacceptable unchanged. Period. They would need to be changed so significantly, they would be barely recognizable.

They cannot have any components, especially not material nor somatic ones. They cannot permit being counterspelled. They cannot cease to function in certain areas because anti-spell effects are in play (AMF, dead magic zone). They cannot involve the vast majority of nonphysical damage types unless fueled by an actual material, e.g. if you bring along a bottle of alchemist's fire, then sure, that could enable fire damage, but unless it's psychic damage I'm not buying it as a martial action.

So, what does that leave? Even if we pretend that all spells are suddenly immune to counterspell and AMF/dead magic/etc., and allow not just psychic but also force and thunder damage (because I'm feeling generous), I'm counting a grand total of 16 damage spells and 31 non-damage spells. Of the damage spells, the only ones I can even remotely justify are sword burst, ensnaring strike, thunderous smite, wrathful smite, zephyr strike, and staggering smite. You may notice that most of these are Ranger spells, and most that aren't are Paladin spells—and are basically just psychic or thunder damage riding atop "do a weapon thing", "scare someone badly", or "push someone around."

Utility spells are even worse. The only ones I can see passing muster are a few heals, hunter's mark, command, and knock, with nothing above 3rd level being even remotely acceptable. Perhaps a dozen spells, max, and even those would need to be reworked to some degree.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
By that logic, 3e Paladin and 3e Ranger horned in on the 1e Fighter.

3e Druid horned in on the 1e Cleric.

Heh. Turns out, 3e needed a Sorcerer to horn in on the Wizard, to justify the absurd amount of page-count that the Wizard was hogging.
What's this '3E' stuff? The 1E Paladin and Ranger horned in on the 1E Fighter! :p
 


Undrave

Legend
What I'm getting at there is that Exploits and Spells were the same mechanic with different set dressing. There's a lot of spells out there that could just be martial in nature, but there's also some that might have desirable effects that are more supernatural...but just like artificers justify their effects as being object-related, a "warlord" could justify their effects as being mundane.
There's a ton of spells on the Ranger spell list that are basically 'a trap that you set up with magic instead of having to develop a whole trap making subsystem'.
Just reinforcing my thesis. ;)

Why do you think WotC might not want to add a new class? (Psion, Warlord, or whatever)
Probably a lot of factor, like fear of scaring away people with bloat, or no thinking the class is that popular, or simply not having good ideas. Or needing room for more spells.

I dunno... maybe there just aren't enough people who want those sacred cows slain? Maybe the number of people hung up on the Wizard "getting everything" isn't big enough to warrant a change? Don't ask me. I have no idea.

I just know I couldn't care less if a Psion or isn't in the game. I'm perfectly fine if WotC decides to make one at some point, just like I'm okay if WotC doesn't and I have to use a 3rd party psionic system or update/use the UA Mystic rules for it if I ever feel the need to have a psion class at one of my tables.
I don’t believe Psionics will ever work in DnD unless they’re build into the system’s lore from the ground up with a very solid definition that isn’t just ‘Magic! Now in Blue Raspberry flavor!’ (everybody know Arcane energy is purple). I think this would also necessitate Magic being more properly defined, which in terms might lead to restrictions to what Magic can do that a lot of (wizard) fans would be turned off by.

4e got away with it because of its focus on mechanics and using them as an excuse to fiddle with the AEDU system. I’m pretty sure Psionics wouldn’t have worked as well with just a classic AEDU set-up.
 

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