D&D (2024) Why is wotc still aiming for PCs with 10 *real word* feet of range? W/o vision range penalty/limit rules for the GM?

[UngainlyTitan]

Have you lived near or driven past farmland before? Most non-grain crops are relatively short compared to an average human & around knee height or less. F/ex Tomatoes, cotton, potatoes, lettuce, cabbage, cucumber, onion, brussel sprouts, carrots, pumpkin, etc are all examples of these short crops. It's not until you start getting into grains (wheat/corn/etc) where the crops start getting much above knee or maybe waist high, Even then wheat is only going to be about 2-4 feet tall (oats too). Farmers like being able to see across a field to make sure herbivorous animals like deer are not eating the crop, not every crop can be expected to grow several feet tall like corn.

If you lie down in a field of cabbage, potatoes or even onions, you will disappear completely.

 

[Hussar]

If you like down in a field of cabbage, potatoes or even onions, you will disappear completely.

To be fair though, it would be hard for an owl bear or an ogre to lie down. But, I’m also trying to think is a large or larger monster that you would reasonably encounter in the wide open in broad daylight and I’m struggling.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

To be fair though, it would be hard for an owl bear or an ogre to lie down. But, I’m also trying to think is a large or larger monster that you would reasonably encounter in the wide open in broad daylight and I’m struggling.

The owlbear, I will grant you, the ogre might be more successful that one would think. Potatoes, at least, when I used to grow them, are set in ridges about 6 to 9 inches tall and the leaves would be another 2 to 3 feet. A human could crawl along the furrow, under the leaves with a very good chance of not being noticed. I would doubt the ogre would.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

To be fair though, it would be hard for an owl bear or an ogre to lie down. But, I’m also trying to think is a large or larger monster that you would reasonably encounter in the wide open in broad daylight and I’m struggling.

As to the broad daylight, my big issue, is that, in flat open terrain, encounters are pretty much discretionary. The only points of possible ambush would be areas where there are dips in the terrain to allow a force to be hidden or stream and river crossings where the terrain and vegetation would allow cover.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

I think the solution is to give swords 200 feet of range.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I think the solution is to give swords 200 feet of range.

I wonder what is the range of Xenk's sword?

 

[S'mon]

Someone on the Internet just told me that most Medieval and Renaissance cities were smaller than 5 acres, so I guess it must be true!

They were pretty small, but not that small. City walls are expensive so the area within them tended to be cramped and heavily populated. 50,000 per square mile was not particularly high, they could get to 100,000 per square mile. At 50,000 that's 78 per acre. A moderate sized city of 5,000 within the walls might therefore be 1/10 a square mile or around 64 acres. Usually there would be pretty extensive suburbs too along the approach roads, though.

I do find a lot of American-drawn fantasy city maps that look more like Chicago from the air than anything resembling actual medieval city maps. Plenty of space for swimming pools.

 

[Maxperson]

I remember some funny debates in PF1e about that system's penalties for vision at great distances, where every 10 feet increased the Perception DC by 1, preventing low Perception characters from even being able to see long ranged targets.

And of course, making it impossible to see the Moon.

Did they include the moon's +10 billion perception bonus?

Reminds me of the 3.5 argument(not serious) that I put forward. I pointed out that when you go negative hit points you go unconscious, but that condition only lasts until -9 hit points. Upon hitting -10 you die. The dead condition says your soul moves on. Okay. You can't benefit from healing. Okay. You start to decay and stink. Okay. That's it! You are no longer unconscious, you stink a bit and have no soul. So technically nothing stops you from standing back up and whacking away at the monsters some more.

 

[Autumnal]

I think the solution is to give swords 200 feet of range.

“Sheer unadulterated genius!” - Wile E. Coyote

 

[James Gasik]

Did they include the moon's +10 billion perception bonus?

Reminds me of the 3.5 argument(not serious) that I put forward. I pointed out that when you go negative hit points you go unconscious, but that condition only lasts until -9 hit points. Upon hitting -10 you die. The dead condition says your soul moves on. Okay. You can't benefit from healing. Okay. You start to decay and stink. Okay. That's it! You are no longer unconscious, you stink a bit and have no soul. So technically nothing stops you from standing back up and whacking away at the monsters some more.

Unfortunately, as seen here, Paizo forgot to give large objects a modifier for Perception, outside of the old +2/-2 "favorable vs. unfavorable conditions". I know it's a silly debate, but you'd be surprised how often people want to impose penalties to see things at a distance that normal people can see just fine, lol.

As far as comments about "not shooting at long range targets you can't be sure what they are", that's never stopped DM-controlled enemies from attacking me at long range, lol.