why not take prestige class

[dububbles1834]

I just have a general question: Why wouldn't most spellcasters take a prestige class? A lot of prestige classes are +1 existing class for spells..if you also get special abilities while going up in spells per day, I don't see much of a drawback.

If you go up 10 levels in Wizard you get scribe scroll and two bonus feats and then take a prestige class. All your missing out on is 2 feats.

A cleric is just missing out on ten levels of undead turning, but a lot of prestige classes offer really good benefits.

The sorcorer pretty much only loses making his familiar have better abilities. I dont see why he wouldnt take one.

If I'm missing something, I'd love to be told. Please respond semi-nicely heh

 

[Pax]

Familiars also don't improve with most prestige classes.

Then again, look at it this way: look at all the PrCs -- and heck, CORE classes -- where a warrior type loses NOTHING in terms of BAB.

Spellcasting levels are to Wizards, Clerics, etc what BAB is to a fighter, barbarian, ranger, etc.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

In order to take any prestige class, the character must pay the opportunity cost represented by the prerequisites. For some, that's not too heavy a cost; for others such as Sacred Exorcist (especially for non-knowledge domain clerics) and Mage of the Arcane Order (especially for sorcerors), that's very high.

Other than that, I won't argue the wizard and sorceror analysis except to say that I really don't think it's a problem.

Clerics, OTOH, have medium BAB, d8 hp, good fort and will saves, and domain powers (such as the animal domain's ability to cast animal friendship at caster level equal to cleric level or the fire domain's elemental turning ability) as well as turning to lose out on. Nearly every cleric p-class reduces one of those benefits.

Contemplative for instance, loses the d8 hp for d6, loses the medium BAB for poor, some domain powers, and IIRC loses good fort saves as well as turning ability.

Divine Oracle similarly loses hit points, BAB, fort save, some domain powers, and turning.

I think the only two core and class-book prestige classes for clerics that allow the retention of attack bonus AND full spellcasting progression are Church Inquisitor (lose turning and domain abilities only) and Sacred Exorcist (lose fort save and domain abilities).

 

[Dthamilaye]

However, sacred exorcist is a good option for an arcane spellcaster. Get better BAB, better hp, looots of nice abilites, get turning undead, and still get 1 caster and spell level / PrC level.

It is about the same with divine oracle. Arcane caster don't lose anything, but gets 9 spells (extremely good for sorc/bard) and some other nice benefits, and still get that 1 caster+spell level / PrC level.

Well, bards lose a bit in DO, but IMHO, it is worth it for at least 2 levels.

For wizard and sorcerer, there is no reason at all to stay in the core class. It just isn't worth it. Bards are the same now, but it might change in 3.5ed.

Familiars... IMC, a bbn3/fgt4/wiz1/planarchampion4 has weasel for +2REF. On the other hand, the src12/inc2 has never had any familiar and the rog4/wiz5/ArcTric3 doesn't have a familiar either.
So I belive they don't give rats bottocks that their familiar advancement is bad with PrC's. I probably will start to give an option to either take familiar or take an extra feat...

Cleric, as well as druid, are both pretty good classes in themselves. For example, multiclassing druid is usually not good. One of the few possibilities is a Verdant lord, or maybe some FR faiths&pantheons PrC.
Cleric also has very nice basic abilities in the core.

 

[Pax]

Clerics, OTOH, have medium BAB, d8 hp, good fort and will saves, and domain powers (such as the animal domain's ability to cast animal friendship at caster level equal to cleric level or the fire domain's elemental turning ability) as well as turning to lose out on. Nearly every cleric p-class reduces one of those benefits.

Contemplative for instance, loses the d8 hp for d6, loses the medium BAB for poor, some domain powers, and IIRC loses good fort saves as well as turning ability.

Actually, I have always interpreted levels in a class which gives domains, to stack with cleric levels. Rather like classes which give a familiar, can stack their levels with other class(es) which do the same.

 

[Tewligan]

I just have a general question: Why wouldn't most spellcasters take a prestige class? A lot of prestige classes are +1 existing class for spells..if you also get special abilities while going up in spells per day, I don't see much of a drawback.

Because that "+1 existing class" only applies to gaining the spells. For purposes of spell duration, area of effect, and other level-dependant things, you only count the levels of the original class. Re-read the ability description closely in one of those PrC's - it's not worded as clearly as it could be, but it's there.

 

[Ravellion]

Re: Re: why not take prestige class

Because that "+1 existing class" only applies to gaining the spells. For purposes of spell duration, area of effect, and other level-dependant things, you only count the levels of the original class. Re-read the ability description closely in one of those PrC's - it's not worded as clearly as it could be, but it's there.

I am sorry but you are wrong there.

a 10th level wizard/1st level loremaster casts spells as an 11th level wizard, clear and simple.

In your game would his brand spanking new Otilukes freezing sphere do only 1d6 damage? That is a rather silly house rule if you ask me.

Rav

 

[Olive]

Re: Re: why not take prestige class

Because that "+1 existing class" only applies to gaining the spells. For purposes of spell duration, area of effect, and other level-dependant things, you only count the levels of the original class. Re-read the ability description closely in one of those PrC's - it's not worded as clearly as it could be, but it's there.

Now this argument I've gotta see...

 

[Tewligan]

Umm, oops...

I went downstairs in a righteous rush to get my DMG so I could point out my correctness to the heathen nonbelievers.

(Cough, cough)

Errr, it seems that I misread the "Spells per day" description the first time, now that I look at it again more closely. Ahem...in my defense though, the first sentencce or two make it sound like...uhhh...yeah. Anyway, I concede my recollective error. As you may guess, prestige classes don't see much use in my group.

Okay, move along, move along...

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Re: Re: why not take prestige class

Because that "+1 existing class" only applies to gaining the spells. For purposes of spell duration, area of effect, and other level-dependant things, you only count the levels of the original class. Re-read the ability description closely in one of those PrC's - it's not worded as clearly as it could be, but it's there.

From Tome and Blood:

"...He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling or rebuking undead, metamagic or item creation feats, hitpoints beyond those he receives from the prestige class, and so on) EXCEPT for an increased effective level of casting"

I believe this has also been confirmed in the FAQ, etc.