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Why Worldbuilding is Bad

I usually start with the monster or villain.

For me its kind of a back and forth sort of thing, sometimes I have a vision of a monster and then its place in things comes clear (or not, in which case it may end up in my notebook as a reminder so I can use it in some future time). Sometimes I have a spot that NEEDS a monster. I think usually the concept comes first, but it could also be a situational concept.

1) 'The 1000 legged one' - this was just me feeling Cthulhuoid one week. I was thinking of the description of Wilbur Whately's brother in The Dunwich Horror, crashing through the trees and leaving weird trackways everywhere. The party was adventuring in a woods under the influence of an evil sorcerer, so out it came! This was a totally custom monster made to fit my mood.

2) 'The Sorcerers Daughter' - The 4e Lamia monster entry seemed cool, a creature made out of bugs. The Green Adept (the sorcerer) was sort of a Kyuss-like kind of guy, mostly worm-eaten, so it seemed apropos that his daughter would be made of bugs! I think I used the monster pretty much stock from the book. Then I came up with a scenario for it. I definitely started with the monster, but create the lore myself, though it wasn't totally inconsistent with the MM version.

3) 'The Owl Bear' - The party had to traverse an underground cave/river system to get to their destination, and I imagined what it would be like to have this horrible fearsome beast snatching characters one at a time from the darkness with its speed and stealth while they blundered around. I can't remember exactly how it went, but I created a situation where they were forced to put out all their lights. It wasn't pretty, though! The owl bear itself, and its lore, got this one in my head.

4) 'The Ghost Wolf King' - I had this idea to have a scene set in a sawmill with the saw about to chop the damsel in half, and also already had this theme going with a group of werewolf-like ghosts from the plane of shadow. Add one log flume for the PCs to ride in on (yeah, this scenario was very kitsch) and a White Dragon reskinned as a giant nasty ghost wolf-thing with a nasty howl (the breath weapon) and it was awesome! Definitely not inspired by ANY monster lore from 4e (I also recycled jackalweres and a couple other monsters as the footsoldiers of the monster group).

5) 'The Juggernaut' - This was an ancient dwarven mining construct, which the party managed to activate during a battle in an old mine. Its main effect was to go crashing through roof supports until it brought the whole mine down around everyone's ears. Then there was the fun running battle to get out, with the loot. I think I used some sort of ogre or something as the basis for the construct. Again, the situation was the starting point on this one.

I think what I'd say is, that monster lore can be useful, up to a point. I thought 4e MM1 had some good and bad points on that front (the lore check stuff and the encounter groups were useful, the lack of even a basic description of most monsters seemed a bit odd). MM3 was a little heavy on the lore/story side sometimes. It was not BAD when they were creating a whole new monster type, like the Banderhobbs, but other times it was not so useful.
 

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From other threads you seem to point out the difference between a player presenting a situation in a passive voice, asking. Versus saying what they are doing and thus making the GM rule. To me they are the same, but to you they are techniques and once again subject to verbiage. The fact that you say you don’t understand a simple concept is again confusing.

I missed a few bits of both threads here and there, so its not impossible that I missed something, but [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] never used technical terms like 'voice' or seemed to care much about those sorts of details, in what I read. He outlined, in the other thread, a particular technique 'standard narrative model' and pointed to a post about it, and explained the term. There is one particular point that seems to me to be central for [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] in terms of play, but he's consistently been pretty flexible about how its described, as long as the other poster didn't try to hand wave away the important distinction. It wasn't some subtle verbiage, it was 2 fairly different techniques.
 

Of course it's not free, unless you stole it, but you didn't have to buy it. There are many reviews of an official product before it is released, and if you wait a week or two there are plenty of player's/DM's that have given an Amazon review, so if you pay for something you don't want that's on you.

I agree. In fact I think one of the main points in commenting on it is to simply register our preferences. I know there are some writers around for one thing. Really never said other people should have to live with my tastes, but [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] did make the point that it seems like EVERYONE is going whole hog into loads of setting everywhere these days. I'm not sure if that's entirely true or not, as I don't tend to buy a huge amount of stuff, but it certainly seems true of a lot of certain people's output, like Paizo.
 

Sure, that’s a valid point. But at the same time, I would think that people buying Dragon Magazine wouldn’t be all that surprised to find a variety of content within. I have my fair share of issues of it and Dungeon, but never really purchased either one regularly. Part of the reason is that i knew any given issue may only offer me a little bit of material to use. So I’d grab one now and again when they seemed to offer something that I knew would be up my alley. Occasionally, I’d find some unexpected inspiration in the kind of article I’d usually avoid.

So I get the preference....people like what they like, and use what they like in their game. But the expectation is what seems odd to me. Something like Dragon Magazine is already a niche product. They can’t further limit their potential audience by focusing on a subsection of their niche audience.

My Dragon subscription dates back to Issue #11, and went on up through the mid 100's. After that I found I didn't read all of them, and read some of them not at all, though they could be useful to have around sometimes. Also it got unwieldy to use them as reference material at a certain point.

NOW I wouldn't mind having a PDF collection going from #1 to #400-whatever, fully indexed, etc. In fact I was a great fan of DDI, as it did just that! Definitely not all issues of any mag are going to be totally useful, but I agree they CAN be and I was sad when Dragon finally just died out.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
My Dragon subscription dates back to Issue #11, and went on up through the mid 100's. After that I found I didn't read all of them, and read some of them not at all, though they could be useful to have around sometimes. Also it got unwieldy to use them as reference material at a certain point.

NOW I wouldn't mind having a PDF collection going from #1 to #400-whatever, fully indexed, etc. In fact I was a great fan of DDI, as it did just that! Definitely not all issues of any mag are going to be totally useful, but I agree they CAN be and I was sad when Dragon finally just died out.

That would rock. I have a bunch of Dragons barely used, because I don't remember where all the articles I like are and don't have time to continually look inside of them.
 

That would rock. I have a bunch of Dragons barely used, because I don't remember where all the articles I like are and don't have time to continually look inside of them.

Yeah, I still have MOST of issues #11-137 or so. Traded a few, etc over the years, but I do LIKE them. The really early ones have a fun vibe.

DDI was nice, but of course they only covered the 4e era PDF-only Dragons. A full index and PDFs of all of them would kick butt. Of course it will never happen, since whatever materials they used to create most of them are probably long since lost to time. They'd have to be scanned and OCRed mostly, which is an ugly process at best. Plus TSR probably didn't get perpetual rights to all the material...
 

Hussar

Legend
What about the people who want that "excess verbiage" and are forced to pay for unnecessary information about "encounter locations' that they don't need?

I'm just saying, you aren't their entire audience. It's a lot of different people who prefer different things. It's a compromise - and not everyone is going to be happy with it, no matter what balance they strike between fluff, crunch, etc.

What compromise. You folks get 100% what you want and we get left in the cold. Yeah that’s one sort of compromise I suppose.
 

Hussar

Legend
That is not funny and uncalled for, Maxperson did not present a when did stop beating your wife situation, he was calling out Hussar for not phrasing his objections in a clear way.

I understand you wanting to point out that Hussar may have been unclear in his statements or to absolute, but to put that against when did you stop beating your wife, that is a low blow, a very low blow and it has no place on this forum.

Yet, funnily enough everyone else in this thread could follow my criticisms perfectly well. To the point where others started pointing out that I never actually said what [MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION] claimed I did.

Pen hits it pretty square on the head.
 


pemerton

Legend
I wouldn't mind having a PDF collection going from #1 to #400-whatever, fully indexed, etc.
Of course it will never happen, since whatever materials they used to create most of them are probably long since lost to time. They'd have to be scanned and OCRed mostly, which is an ugly process at best. Plus TSR probably didn't get perpetual rights to all the material...
In the late 90s TSR released a 5 CD-set with #1 to #250, plus the 7 prior issues of The Strategic Review, as PDFs. All OCRed and Indexed.

I believe that a licensing/rights issue with regard to some Kenzer content was what led to the settlement that allowed the release of Kingdoms of Kalamar using D&D trade dress, and then the use of TSR-era IP in early-00s Hackmaster.

EDIT: I should add, I have this collection.
 

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