Why Worship Gods?

[Bront]

I prefer to have a campaign world steeped in gods, but then the question still remains, how does one present it so that it is believable, and important to the PCs?

You need to make the pantheon believable, and make is socialy noticable.

Mechanicaly, there is usually little direct benifit from worshiping a diety for any non-cleric, but it is not only RP gold, (which you can reward with exp, which means there is now a mechanical advantage) it was a fundimental social thing.

Honestly, most commoners never worship one single god, but several different gods (Because they all have different aspects). Warriors ask for the god of war to strengthen them, farmers ask for the gods of agriculture and weather to help him, traders sactify deals in the name of the trade diety. Much like anchient civilizations. Or, in the case of today's religions, many worship to one god and ask for his blessing in many mannors and at different times.

Faith grants people the courage to do something they would have never thought possable otherwise, and can be a powerful motivating force. In a way, that the deity exists or interferes or not is trivial, it is the act of faith itself that can be important.

The gods were origionaly used as a way to explain things that at the time seemed otherwise unexplainable (Much like what was labled "magic"). Their background stories can add flavor to a world beyond the normal background of cities, heroes, and legends. (Think Greek mythology, which many people find more interesting than actual Greek history.)

I'm not sure this answers your question, but I hope it helps.

 

[Hand of Evil]

It is the reward. Gods offer a reward to their worshippers, it could be in the afterlife, it could be in blessings, or good harvest, powerness in battle or the bed room, children, or a long life, or something else but it is all about the reward.

 

[Tatsukun]

In my campaign, most people don’t devoutly worship a god. Everyone knows about divine magic, and everyone knows about arcane magic. People just disagree about where they both come from. The churches say their magic comes from their gods, the mages say all magic is natural and has nothing to do with gods.

It makes for a lot of fun role-playing. I have had a cleric spend a long time trying to convert masses to belief and I am about to have a paladin who thinks even arcane magic comes from his god.

So, IMC, people worship a god so they can be members of the church guild. They can get some benefits, like free housing and food; or maybe a discount on items. But they have to live by the rules of that church. Clerics who worship only an ideal don’t get the support, but they are also free of the rules, regulations, and responsibility.

The only real changes I had to make to allow atheists in 3.5 was to change the “contact a god” type spells from words to feelings or images. Also, I changes summoning to creation. When you summon something, it is made by the magic (so you can’t summon an angel and ask about heaven).

(Spoilers for my game below, DON’T READ if you are one of my players)

The fun thing is playing out what the church guild does to suppress the clerics who don’t worship a god. Currently they are trying to prove that the non-god clerics are secretly worshiping an evil god (who is granting spells). Can anyone say inquisition???

-Tatsu

 

[jasper]

Why does anyone in your world worship gods? 3.X establishes pretty well that clerics (etc.) gain their divine spells and powers whether or not they worship anyone. What is the purpose behind gods in your world? Does anyone get any direct benefits from worshiping them? Indirect benefits?

First that rule of no gods I initially read as if a player does not want to choose a god listed the player and dm would come up with god which did fit you. Yes it was first edition hold over. But now I have a house rule of you have to choose a god either one in the book, or from Dieties and Demigods, etc.
Gods exist and depending on the mythos maybe in constant battle with thier opposites. They do answer god calls so beware of what you ask for. Direct benefits if the player has roleplayed his worship well increase chances of god calls and occasional do over. Indirect benefits varies but you do have a safe place to crash is the inn is full.

 

[Driddle]

I don't buy the "knowledge precludes faith" arguement. I have more faith in things that are evidenced than in those which are not.

Or, put it this way, do you have more faith in a personal relationship that gives you regular positive feedback, or one in which you receive no feedback at all?

Faith, in the sense used for discussing matters theological, is what a person bases his belief on sans evidence. If you've got evidence of gawd's existence, then there's no need for faith.

Complicating matters of faith vs. evidence is a funky mental quirk humans have that psychologists call "confirmation bias," which leads us to establish cause-and-effect relationships between all sorts of events even if such links are not justified. For example, I wear red socks and my team wins, I'm convinced that the socks and success are connected in some way. It works the other way, too, though: once a bias has been established ("I pray and good things happen"), the negative outcomes are ignored because they don't fit the bias ("Hnh. I prayed and nothing happened? Must not have prayed hard enough...")

What that means is that the layman philosopher will stubbornly maintain that he has seen "evidence" of gawd's existence via prayers and miracles, even though there's no way to track it back to the source.

But back to your somewhat misphrased question: Yes, I'd appreciate a relationship with any being that had proven himself by a pattern of positive actions on my behalf. Otherwise, I have to cling to a fervent hope that everything will work out.

I've never suggested that faith isn't good. The human spirit needs hope, faith, best wishes, dreams, etc. to thrive. I was just poking a little fun at the wonky situation as we know it in D&D terms.

I think it would be fun, and appropriate, if the DM randomly and/or mysteriously refused to grant a cleric PC's request to fulfill prayers. To continue playing under uncertain circumstances? -- THAT would require faith.

 

[Janx]

Well, in the real world, people worship gods wether or not they receive any tangible, spell-like benefits.

Why would we expect people an a fantasy world to behave differently?

That pretty much hits it on the head. It's not about what benefits the followers recieve, so much as it is, the presence of clerics with magic is proof that the gods exist, therefore, the people worship them.

Given how many people in RL worship a deity with little more than a book as proof, why would anyone doubt in a fantasy game where the proof is immutable.

Janx

 

[Driddle]

"Hey! Why didn't my cleric get his +3 skill bonus?"

"Because I am a capricious and unknowable DM. I work in mysterious ways. It's all part of my master plan, which you shall never understand, puny gaming mortal."

 

[Bihor]

I am begining to believe that the Gygax/R.E. Howard/Tolkein method is best: You believe in the gods because you might meet them. They take an active interest in the world. You are more likely, at any level, to have a brush with the divine than you are to meet a dragon.

They made it clear that 3E, they where making the rules generic so they will apeal to more people.
IMC, the gods created the inteligente races to have worshipers. With each race they created, they whern't happy with the level of devotion, until the created the humans.
The majority od humans worshiped the gods willingly and with all there heart. And if the pray, and make sacrifices (not necessarely living) they can have a dirrect answer from the god that the ask help. It could be in the form of a cleric passing in the village, or a storm destroying your competition crops.

 

[hexgrid]

I prefer the AE/Diamond Throne approach to all this.

Gods and entire pantheons are described in the setting material, but without a cleric class, they're not tied to the mechanics at all. So the actual existence of these gods in is only an in-game (as opposed to meta-game) issue.

 

[Voadam]

Why does anyone in your world worship gods? 3.X establishes pretty well that clerics (etc.) gain their divine spells and powers whether or not they worship anyone. What is the purpose behind gods in your world? Does anyone get any direct benefits from worshiping them? Indirect benefits?

Mostly for the social network, churches, and a church sponsored belief in the need to do so. It is dogma that you need to worship the gods so people do. This gives more power to the churches so they like that train of thought and encourage it. Many believe that belief is necessary, the gods directly intervene on big and small scales, etc. Also demons are worshipped and their clerics get spells.

However in my game even clerics who dedicate themselves to one god are actually godless clerics who tap divine power and many simply just happen to believe they are getting their power from a god. Any cleric can take any character appropriate domain, not just the ones listed for the god.

Gods are real beings of divine power IMC, but they are not the source of clerical divine power and rarely have any direct benefits for worshippers or intervention effects, it is rare for the gods to manifest on the world of mortals and they are not omnipresent, though many churches say they are and many people believe they are.

Funny enough, God churches are predominant in the campaign and significant political forces, but there are church schisms and spies and infiltrators in churches are possibilities as well as cross alignment stuff, though official church dogma presents this as an impossibility.

Most of the PCs don't know any of this and feel their clerics and paladins picked gods and therefore worship them and work with organized churches, which has been significant benefit in game as party resources and allies.