D&D 5E Will 5e D&D re-claim its campaign settings.

[DEFCON 1]

All I'm looking for are rules updates for the various campaign settings that fans love.

You can't tell me that a rules update wouldn't sell. There are certainly many types of non-"big story" books that will sell. D&D isn't only about the story / adventure path. Campaign settings are also huge part of D&D.

And what pray tell are the "rules updates" these settings need? Eberron has got their rules updates-- they made a UA article for them over a year ago. Greyhawk has no special "rules" that need updating. As far as I know... Mystara, Birthright, same thing. Dark Sun has the rules for defiling which have not yet had someone at WotC cobble together a workaround, I'll give you that-- and the Thri-kreen and Mul could probably see a UA article thrown their way too.

Once you get those couple things though... what game mechanical things do WotC have to write up for people in order to play these settings? What's holding players back from playing those settings right now?

 

[RotGrub]

And what pray tell are the "rules updates" these settings need? Eberron has got their rules updates-- they made a UA article for them over a year ago. Greyhawk has no special "rules" that need updating. As far as I know... Mystara, Birthright, same thing. Dark Sun has the rules for defiling which have not yet had someone at WotC cobble together a workaround, I'll give you that-- and the Thri-kreen and Mul could probably see a UA article thrown their way too.

Once you get those couple things though... what game mechanical things do WotC have to write up for people in order to play these settings? What's holding players back from playing those settings right now?

I'm glad you agree that it wouldn't be such a big effort on WoTC's part to provide an update.

Of course, I think Eberron fans would disagree with you and if I recall correctly, Greyhawk has a number of races that are in need of rules.

I'd just rather see WoTC embrace its past a little more and re-claim those campaign settings of old. Even if only a single page of updates are required for some campaign settings, it would certainly be appreciated.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[RotGrub]

Wait ... are you saying that people playing 5e might want to make their own campaign worlds? THE HORROR!

Seriously, if you want to run a campaign, and you don't want to run the WoTC-standard adventure paths, there are some simple, easy solutions for you.

1. Make your own world. On information and belief, it is my understanding that people have, in fact, created their own campaign settings. I understand that it is still possible to do this in 5e.

2. Use one of the many resources available on the internet. If you like Mystara (for example), there is a great guide out there for 5e. If you like Eberron, they did a UA to get you started on the conversion.

3. Use the old material. Now, some of the material converts more easily than others, I admit (running a GH campaign requires almost no conversion, running an Eberron campaign requires more "crunch" conversion). But here's the thing- all that stuff you have that really takes the work- the societies, the maps, the cultural stuff? That's exactly the same! Converting the crunch isn't that hard.

In the end, most of this (if not all) is about two issues-

1. Some people prefer official material. That's fine.

2. Some people believe (oh no, I'm going there) that this is about validation. That unless WoTC releases an official supplement with their favorite thing in it, they haven't been properly validated by the powers that be.

Personally, I hope that a few years in, WoTC and/or the internet has all the material you could ask for. But there is nothing, right now, keeping you from running your favored campaign right now.

And no, I will never run a campaign in the FR, and I have no problems with 5e. Saves me money.

I understand you're not a fan, so you don't really care.

I think some people just want offical 5e rules updates for the offical campaign settings of D&D. Partial updates are not helpful. It's not that complicated to make fans happy and make money at the same time.

 

[Azurewraith]

And no, I will never run a campaign in the FR, and I have no problems with 5e. Saves me money.

Right with you there after the core books the obvious buys right, but we split em 6ways between our group so cost nothing really. Only other book I bought was oota and that's only because I have a total underdark fetish.

 

[Azurewraith]

I understand you're not a fan, so you don't really care.

I think some people just want offical 5e rules updates for the offical campaign settings of D&D. Partial updates are not helpful. It's not that complicated to make fans happy and make money at the same time.

I would argue its very happy to keep fans happy and make money as the fans inevitably want more and more at increasingly reduced price points.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[GreyLord]

One of the myths that people like to spread around (and started by someone who thought they knew, but didn't tell the whole story) was that TSR died because it had too much brand dilution.

That is not true.

TSR died because they didn't balance costs. You cannot spend 100K developing an item, and then print and sell it, where even if it sold every single copy, you'd only make 50K. You will lose money.

On top of that, after you develop it for 100K, you never do assessments to evaluate how many you might sell, and so you overprint by several thousand copies of what you could sell, meaning that you only make 30K out of that 100K +5K in marketing. You've just lost 75K.

Do that over several dozen items, and you've lost several million dollars in the course of a year. Do that over multiple years in increasing common occurrences...and you have a serious problem.

I think this relates to the current idealogy in part of WoTC. They've bought this fable of dilution of brands by too many campaigns settings, (instead of the real cause, which was lack of any common sense of any sort of business acumen) and enforced it like a giant fist on their publication.

That said, it MAY be the RIGHT thing to do at this time.

In 1983, TSR could have been making around 40-60 MILLION dollars, in 1980s values.

1n 1991, TSR was making 90-100 MILLION dollars...in 1990s dollars. You could say, they broke the 100 Million dollar mark according to some accounts.

Unfortunately 100 Million doesn't last long when you are spending in excess of 150 million...

Today, I've seen an estimate or two that states the ENTIRE RPG industry (that's more than just D&D) is only around 15 MILLION dollars...in today's money.

That's less than One product line at TSR was making in the 80s or 90s.

In that sense, another reason could be that, in relation to what was supportable in the 80s or 90s...there isn't enough customers out there to support more than one line.


Of course, that calls into question about 3e...which didn't make anywhere close to the 80s or 90s overall (of course, with their estimates that the customers base was 1/5th what it was in the 80s and 90s...the numbers probably make more sense as well).

They stated 3e sold 1,000,000 (that's a million core books...that's a LOT of books) in the first year of release (which most likely means the first few months in regards to the fiscal year).

Extracting that, this is 20 Million dollars (they published in bulk so they could sell the 3e books for less at $20 a pop).

The second year they only sold around 800,000 to 900,000 but they also were selling other models and accessories. I'd guestimate they were making around 20 Million to 35 Million a year at that point.

Still around 2X what the ENTIRE hobby is worth today (as I said, according to some estimates...not that I am positive those estimates are actually correct).

We know they were supporting Forgotten Realms, Oriental Adventures (at first with 3e), and Eberron. That's around 10 Million (but those sales also included core rulebooks) a piece, if we split it evenly (which we can't, I don 't think OA actually did a terrific job compared to Eberron or Forgotten Realms).

In 3.5 OA was sort of dropped and Dragonlance kind of was supported for a rulebook and then handed off to 3rd party...but then sales at the end of 3.5 were a little weaker.

Overall, if looking at brands, I'd say the target of support is somewhere between 8-15 Million dollars for the WotC industry.

So perhaps, part of the thing is seeing how much the market might support, and with the current market, it appears that only one official brand from WotC is worth it.

Total guess on my part.

And it doesn't make the Dragonlance or OA lover (like me) any happier, but it's something that I think can explain a reluctance to focus on more than FR currently...until they bleed it out and see if there's room for more (which I think they stuck a toe in the water with Ravenloft).

 

[Shasarak]

I find it amazing how people still question wotcs bussiness plan its almost like they don't want them to make money. Does it suck that the focus is on fr modules yep, does it suck that its slow churning content yep. Know what would suck more? Hasbro turning off the lights cuz the dnd team printed 10 different settings a month that not everyone could afford as well $500 is a lot to drop on a hobby in such a short time span

If only there was a way to produce somewhere between 10 different settings per month and 1/6 of a setting per month.

 

[Ampolitor]

umm if they did a Birthright book, HECK YA!