Will D&D make strength matter again?

[Lost Soul]

The most damage a Lv. 5 Rogue with 2 daggers (I'll be generous and give him 2 daggers) is doing is 2d4+3d6+DEX ( =1d4 dagger +1d4 dagger +3d6 Sneak Attack). With 16 DEX that's 18.5, and that's the ceiling (barring a crit).

The base damage a Lv. 5 Fighter with a greatsword (plus Great Weapon Style) is doing is 4d6(r1&2)+2*STR. With 16 STR that's 22.7, already surpassing the maximum of what the Rogue can do. Oh but I didn't even add the Great Weapon Master feat yet. That's another +20, making the Fighter's damage ceiling 42.7. Oh, I didn't Action Surge? I did now. 85.4. What about a few Superiority Dice? That'll be another 4d8 to the damage ceiling, or 18 more points.

So "Conan" here, at Lv. 5, can choose a round to inflict a maximum of 103.4 points of damage. Even if the Fighter misses on 2 of his 4 attacks on his Action Surge turn (likely if he doesn't get advantage), he's still dealing more than 50. All the dagger guy will ever do in comparison is 18.5 at most. Ever.

Clearly, you did not think this comparison through.

I actually stated in my thread that Great Weapon Master is not part of the discussion. Secondly, it would be better for Conan to be fighter 5/rogue 6 with a rapier than fighter 11 with a great sword. He would have 2D8+21 +3D6 compared to 6D6+15 for great sword plus having a +2 bonus to his AC for using a shield vs no shield. It should not require a feat to make Heavy Weapons viable and there is no equivalent one handed strength weapon feats that compare to defensive duelist.

 

[Hayato]

Early on, I think so. Even lvl 5 it's probably close as well when you get that second attack, but eventually a fighter will get more gear and more attacks and outshine a Hexblade in close melee. I have done a couple Hexblades in AL and have pissed off a few fighters by its effectiveness early on.

What's gear fighter will get? I don't have AL in my country.

 

[Spastik]

The Hexblade can use medium armor, a shield, and gets a free +1 weapon. When a fighter can afford good heavy armor and a magic weapon, a second attack, and a couple ASI's he will outshine the Hexblade. I quickly got bored with the Hexblade as I was basically only casting Hex then either armor of agathys or shield in a fight, and then you are done. The 2 spell slots is just boring after a while.

 

[cmad1977]

Non issue.

 

[Gladius Legis]

The OP wants Strength to be the go-to ability score even if you don't create a greatweapon/polearm character. In 5E you have little reason to create a Strength-based longsword or battleaxe wielder. That is the issue; that's what the OP wants to discuss and change.

Except that's not really true, either. STR sword-and-board can wear plate. That's 18 base AC, better than what DEX will ever get with studded leather + DEX 20.

STR-based can drop their shield and grapple if they need to, while DEX-based cannot.

And finally, the Shield Master feat is a significant damage boost for sword-and-board (shoving prone = lots of advantage), and only STR-based will be able to use that effectively.

 

[Gladius Legis]

I actually stated in my thread that Great Weapon Master is not part of the discussion.

Yet you keep mentioning Defensive Duelist. If you're bringing feats into the discussion for one build, then I get to for another build.

there is no equivalent one handed strength weapon feats that compare to defensive duelist.

Shield Master says hi. And it's a much better feat than Defensive Duelist. Shoving prone = all the advantage for you and all the disadvantage for them, so it's great on both offense AND defense. And only a STR-based character will use it effectively.

Secondly, it would be better for Conan to be fighter 5/rogue 6 with a rapier than fighter 11 with a great sword. He would have 2D8+21 +3D6 compared to 6D6+15 for great sword plus having a +2 bonus to his AC for using a shield vs no shield.

Your math is way off on the Fighter/Rogue. He would have 2d8+14+3d6. You added an extra +7 for a third attack he doesn't have. Also if you're going to include Fighting Style for the Fighter/Rogue, then you have to for the Great Weapon Fighter, as well, so the GW Fighter is 6d6r1&2+15.

So your Fighter/Rogue tops out at 33.5 in a round. The GW Fighter tops out at 40, and I humored you and didn't include GWM in that.

Your Fighter/Rogue is also going to add only 2d8+14 to an Action Surge, since you can't Sneak Attack twice on your turn, even on an Action Surge. So your Fighter/Rogue is topping out at only 56.5 on an Action Surge. The GW Fighter, on the other hand, gets to multiply his entire base round damage, so his Action Surge is topping out at 80 points. Again, I humored you without GWM, but even without it, the GW Fighter is coming out well on top.

 

[CubicsRube]

Thank you CapnZapp. Finally someone gets my point! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Then to that end i woyld propose this - remove tghe dex bonus to damage for weapons.

Dex then is still valuable for atack bonuses and precision, but it lowers the damage output from finesse and ranged weapon builds sufficiently vs a str based build, especially when nultiple attacks come on.

A dex fighter with a rapier is then outputting 1d8 per attack vs 1d8+3 per attack on a longsword et al. At 5th with an action surge the 12 damage over 4 attacks is significant enough but not too extreme, imo

 

[Rossbert]

Then to that end i woyld propose this - remove tghe dex bonus to damage for weapons.

Dex then is still valuable for atack bonuses and precision, but it lowers the damage output from finesse and ranged weapon builds sufficiently vs a str based build, especially when nultiple attacks come on.

A dex fighter with a rapier is then outputting 1d8 per attack vs 1d8+3 per attack on a longsword et al. At 5th with an action surge the 12 damage over 4 attacks is significant enough but not too extreme, imo

That would make my cantrips more valuable than my weapons again.

 

[CubicsRube]

That would make my cantrips more valuable than my weapons again.

Why is that a problem?

And thatd be specific to your character. You cant sneak attack, sharpshooter or battlemaster maneuver a cantrip

 

[Rossbert]

Why is that a problem?

And thatd be specific to your character. You cant sneak attack, sharpshooter or battlemaster maneuver a cantrip

I never said it was. Just thought it was interesting that a sword or bow was better than my cantrips up to a certain level. I may have a wizard that has almost cast no cantrips in a couple combats.