Will Power magic system supplement online, free!

[Zerakon]

Hi, I've put my Will Power supplement on the net!

What is Will Power? It's my system of unified magic based on Will Points. Actually, it's more than a magic system, its got cool new concepts that allow non-spellcasters to use their Will Points in interesting ways, too, like Heroic Effort, Meditative/Supernatural/Empathic Healing, Focused Strikes, Weird Defense, etc.

Anway, if you're interested, check it out! I'm looking for feedback.

It's a Word doc in a zip file here: Will Power.

Thanks!

-- Zerakon the Game Mage

 

[Drawmack]

I just finished reading over the document. I like the idea of feat based magic. However I feel this execution does need a bit of work yet.

I have heard that an acid test of a feat's power level (or balance) is this. If no one will ever take the feat it is too weak and conversely if everyone wants to take the feat it is too powerful. With this in mind I feel that the basic spell casting feat is too powerful. I cannot imagine any character, who meets the prereqs, not taking this feat.

I believe a basic analysis, number crunch, will demonstrate my concerns with this.

At each level a character gains 1dX + Wis will points.

Since you state that will points are gained in much the same way as hit points I assume that means that you get max will points at first level.

Here is the Spell Use, Basic Feat

SPELL USE, BASIC [general]
You have the ability to cast low-level spells.
Prerequisites: Intelligence 11+.
Benefit: Choose two schools of magic, plus a number of additional schools equal to your Dexterity bonus. If your Dexterity bonus is ?2 or lower, you may still choose one school of magic. You have the ability to cast 0th-level, 1st-level, and 2nd-level spells from the chosen schools. You can learn three 0th-level spells, plus a number of additional spells equal to your Intelligence modifier. You can learn two 1st-level spells, plus a number of additional spells equal to your Intelligence modifier. You can learn one 2nd-level spell, plus a number of additional spells equal to your Intelligence modifier. Casting a 0th-level spell burns 1 Will Point. Casting a 1st-level spell burns 2d4 Will Points. Casting a 2nd-level spell burns 2d6 Will Points, or 6d6 Will Points if you are not yet character level 3+.

Let?s look at a third level rogue with 12 for all relevant statistics who has the average will points.

Will Points (6+1 + 3+1 + 3+1) = 15 will points
If this rogue took spell use, basic then they would learn 4 zero level spells, 3 first level spells and two second level spells. The would be allowed to take three schools of magic.

This is plenty for them to learn all of the ?Rogue? spells like arcane lock, move silently, etc.

By 20th level this rogue, still sticking with averages, would have (6+1 + 57+19) 83 will points. Danananananana super rogue.

I could easily carry this example out to all the classes, but I think this makes the point especially since this example doesn?t even push the limits of the system and already breaks it.
I recommend doing something to increase the cost of basic spell casting. Either force the person to take some ranks in spellcraft. Maybe instead of using character level for when a character can safely cast spells of a given level make it contingent upon ranks in spellcraft. 4 ranks = lvl 1, 6 ranks = lvl 2, 8 ranks = lvl 3, etc. I think that would significantly increase the cost of casting skills. Another way to do it is that not every character gets will points. Instead they have to burn a feat to get them and some classes get the feat for free at first level, but this may cause an over population of battle-mages.

I think that the Sage class is significantly over powered.

At every other level they get a bonus feat and at the levels where they don?t get a bonus feat they get a discovery. They get a d6 hit die, d8 will die, and 6+int skill points. This is too much IMHO. I recommend giving them a d4, 4+int skill points and remove the ability to add a class skill, with retroactive point change, from the discovery list. The drawbacks to arcane secret a purely role-playing based. It is not a good idea to give a mechanical benefit with only a role-playing detriment. If this took con points permanently form the character and gave them the physical deformity off the chart to represent the con loss that could be good. Maybe -2 con points for each time this discovery is made.

Other then these two things it is an excellent system though.

I do have some formatting pointers though.
1) PAGE NUMBERS 19 pages without number, what if your print out gets out of order?
2) Shade every other row on the tables, it makes it a lot easier on the reader.
3) Wrap text around the tables that don?t take up an entire page to make the document shorter.


You really don?t need to include the spell lists for each school. You haven?t changed the schools of any of the spells so this is unnecessary and just wastes printer ink.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Moved to house rules.

 

[Zerakon]

I have heard that an acid test of a feat's power level (or balance) is this. If no one will ever take the feat it is too weak and conversely if everyone wants to take the feat it is too powerful. With this in mind I feel that the basic spell casting feat is too powerful. I cannot imagine any character, who meets the prereqs, not taking this feat.

Thanks for the feedback, Drawmack, you're absolutely right on this point. One of my players was here last night and pointed out the same flaw. I will certainly revise this for v0.2. I like your Spellcraft concept, and I like what my player and I discussed last night about breaking up Basic Spell Use into two feats: Simple Spell Use (can cast 0th level "cantrips" only) and Basic Spell Use (can cast 1st and 2nd level spells).

Agreed also that the Sage is overpowered, I'll give him another analysis after I decide on the above item. -2 Con per arcane secret is probably too harsh though; that'll make arcane secrets not worth taking. Perhaps I'll make there be a loss of 1 or 2 Hit Points per secret taken.

Finally, thanks for the little feedback points like document formatting -- I will get on that! I do need the spell lists but I'll split them into a separate document so you won't have to view/print them if you don't want; they are sort of needed for me and my players because I had to change some of the spell levels. Sometimes I chose a level in between Cleric and Wizard; for example, Animate Dead is a Clr 3, Wiz 5, so in Will Power I assigned it level 4. A more important example is Holy Weapon which is Pal 4, but I converted it to be level 6 because Paladins can't cast Holy Sword til 14th level. Heck, it maybe should be a 7th or 8th level spell, or dropped from the system entirely. On a related note, my player is urging me to make up a Will Power Paladin class, so his current Paladin/Cleric can be converted more easily to the system.

I'll post a message when I've got a new and improved version up. Thanks again!

-- Zerakon the Game Mage

 

[Drawmack]

I do need the spell lists but I'll split them into a separate document so you won't have to view/print them if you don't want; they are sort of needed for me and my players because I had to change some of the spell levels. Sometimes I chose a level in between Cleric and Wizard; for example, Animate Dead is a Clr 3, Wiz 5, so in Will Power I assigned it level 4. A more important example is Holy Weapon which is Pal 4, but I converted it to be level 6 because Paladins can't cast Holy Sword til 14th level. Heck, it maybe should be a 7th or 8th level spell, or dropped from the system entirely. On a related note, my player is urging me to make up a Will Power Paladin class, so his current Paladin/Cleric can be converted more easily to the system.

A will-power paladin would be cool. Maybe you could only list the spells that you have changed.

 

[Zerakon]

Will Power: Will Points v0.2 is now available.

Most significant changes for v0.2:
- Better formatting and smaller fonts to take up less pages even though I added a lot more information.
- Split Spell Lists out into a separate doc.
- Added Channeling feat, without which you suffer DOUBLE spell burn when casting spells. This makes it a harder for non-mages to be "good" at magic.
- Added some Spellcraft prerequisites to the Spell Use feats.
- Tried to clarify a bunch of vague rules, and now includes some spellcasting examples.

Enjoy,

-- Zerakon the Game Mage

 

[Drawmack]

grabbing it now

 

[Drawmack]

I fixed your formatting.

1) I put the tables into tables
2) fixed the marings so that it prints okay without a full bleed printer.

 

[Drawmack]

Adding the feat with a second level requirement causes two problems. First, no one has spells at first level. Second, the fighter gets a bonus feat at second level and therefore has no need of waiting until forth level to channel.

They only regain 1 will point per level, how about an optional rule where they regain 1 point per level plus their wisdom bonus.

The means of replenishing will points faster should have a detriment as well. Never give the character anything for free. Again if everyone will do it, it?s over powered.

Lemongrass Willdraught could cause -2 temporary cha damage for the bad breath it leaves the user with.

Lnagston Pipeweed could cause an additional two hours of rest, most will sleep 10 hours elves will meditate 6 hours.

Drinking the wine, causes intoxication how about some rules for intoxication and instead of tying the % gain to the quality of the wine tie it to the level of intoxication. This way the more someone gains the more sever their penalty.

Sleeping arrangements are fine as is.

FEATS
A character does not need to spend their feats as soon as they acquire them. Since all characters get two feats at first level they could take Basic Spell Use at first level and then take channeling at second level. This does make spells a bit more costly but does not really fix the problem you had before.

Naturally Gifted should specify what you mean by related. Are skills that give synergy to each other related? Are skills that use the same ability related?

Classes
Why is the priest?s Daily Meditation tied to charisma? Shouldn?t it be tied to will?

Casting
The system still has the same problem as before with everyone wanting to be a caster. I recommend keeping the channeling feat. Then instead of having a safe level that is based purely on character level do it on ranks in spell craft. The reason is, just by living everyone will get to the safe level now, but if it is ranks in spellcraft then they will have to make it to that level and gain one rank in spellcraft each level to get there.
Sp Lvl - Safe Spellcraft ranks
0 - 1
1 - 4
2 - 6
3 - 8
4 - 10
5 - 12
6 - 14
7 - 16
8 - 18
9 - 20

The reason is that spending two feats will be unattractive to those with high skill points and spending the skill points will be unattractive to those with bonus feats. Seals up all the holes so that everyone can learn to do magic, but it?s hard for all except the classes designed to overcome both these detriments.

 

[Zerakon]

Adding the feat with a second level requirement causes two problems. First, no one has spells at first level.

Anyone with Int 11+ and 2 ranks of Spellcraft can get spells at 1st level by taking the Basic Spell Use feat. The problem for 1st-level characters when it comes to using spells is that they won't have the Channeling feat, so their spells will cost double Will Points. But, at 2d4x2 WP burn, characters CAN cast spells, they are just going to pay a premium for them. Certainly this is not going to be for everyone, but that was the whole point with this revision -- to make it a tough call on whether to invest on the spellcasting road (for non-mages, anyway).

For example, a 1st level priest with 14 Wisdom will have 14 Will Points, enough for a 1st level spell and a couple cantrips, possibly 2 1st level spells.

Second, the fighter gets a bonus feat at second level and therefore has no need of waiting until forth level to channel.

Nope, fighter's bonus feats are restricted to fighter-type feats, like Power Attack, Cleave, etc. So a single-classed fighter will not be able to take Channeling until 4th level. Which will make it pretty tough for a single-classed fighter to choose Basic Spell Use at level 1, especially with only a d4 Will Die.

Looking more carefully, you can see why I switched mage's arcane secret/bonus feats to odd/even levels. Now a 2nd level mage can take Channeling as her first bonus feat, which is a good thing IMO -- a straight mage is the ONLY class that can get Channeling at 2nd level. Anyone else will have to wait til 4th level minimum.

They only regain 1 will point per level, how about an optional rule where they regain 1 point per level plus their wisdom bonus.

Actually, I was discussing will gain with one of my players and we were thinking that Wisdom (being pretty darn important as far as collecting lots of WPs) should maybe affect your WP potential but not recovery. We were actually thinking that perhaps Constitution should assist WP recovery, but I'm still thinking about it. It's one of those things where Wisdom might make the most sense, but might not be a good decision for game balance.

The means of replenishing will points faster should have a detriment as well. Never give the character anything for free. Again if everyone will do it, it?s over powered.

Lemongrass Willdraught could cause -2 temporary cha damage for the bad breath it leaves the user with.

Lnagston Pipeweed could cause an additional two hours of rest, most will sleep 10 hours elves will meditate 6 hours.

Drinking the wine, causes intoxication how about some rules for intoxication and instead of tying the % gain to the quality of the wine tie it to the level of intoxication. This way the more someone gains the more sever their penalty.

I agree with "never give the character anything for free" but the characters do have to pay for all of the above, yes having to pay for something (especially once you climb to high levels) is not a big "detriment," but it's something, especially in my campaigns where treasure is more scarce than normal. Having said that, I think your ideas are cool. Possible addiction for overusing Willdraught would be another option.

FEATS
A character does not need to spend their feats as soon as they acquire them. Since all characters get two feats at first level they could take Basic Spell Use at first level and then take channeling at second level. This does make spells a bit more costly but does not really fix the problem you had before.

Whoa. I think we are on different pages. First of all, not all characters get two feats at 1st level; humans get a bonus feat, fighters get a bonus feat (but it has to be a "fighting feat") and I'm giving extra bonus feat to characters who choose barbarian or fighter as their first character class, but again none of these feats are spellcasting.

So, Channeling is kept away from all characters except mages til 4th level. This is by design.

Naturally Gifted should specify what you mean by related. Are skills that give synergy to each other related? Are skills that use the same ability related?

I guess I could be more specific with this; this is intended to be a poor and smart man's version of the "+2 to 2 skills" feats in PHB 3.5. It's important to the sage class to have this (or all of those 3.5 feats) in their list of bonus feats. Sages who don't choose to go down the "arcane path" but instead choose the "skill path" can choose to boost their skills every 2 levels, as well as gain a new class skill every 2 levels with discoveries.

Classes
Why is the priest?s Daily Meditation tied to charisma? Shouldn?t it be tied to will?

Good point; I agree.

Casting
The system still has the same problem as before with everyone wanting to be a caster. I recommend keeping the channeling feat. Then instead of having a safe level that is based purely on character level do it on ranks in spell craft. The reason is, just by living everyone will get to the safe level now, but if it is ranks in spellcraft then they will have to make it to that level and gain one rank in spellcraft each level to get there.
Sp Lvl - Safe Spellcraft ranks
0 - 1
1 - 4
2 - 6
3 - 8
4 - 10
5 - 12
6 - 14
7 - 16
8 - 18
9 - 20

The reason is that spending two feats will be unattractive to those with high skill points and spending the skill points will be unattractive to those with bonus feats. Seals up all the holes so that everyone can learn to do magic, but it?s hard for all except the classes designed to overcome both these detriments.

I might be in agreement, but I have to think about this more and probably tweak your numbers significantly. I think your required ranks are way too high. For example, according to your chart a single-classed rogue won't be able to safely cast a 3rd level spell until 12th level, because she'd need to put 16 skill points toward Spellcraft to get 8 ranks. Ouch. That would just make everyone want to multiclass into mage, which is sort of against the foundation of the system, in which spell-casting is feat- and ability- based and not as much class-based.

I appreciate your feedback, Drawmack, you've certainly given me a lot of good stuff to think about. Thanks!

-- Zerakon the Game Mage

P.S. Thanks for pointing out my document formatting problems, I'm a mean C++ programmer but not so good with the old Word processor.