WIR S1 Tomb of Horrors [SPOILERS!! SPOILERS EVERYWHERE!!]‏

[Raven Crowking]

Removed

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

One thing of note about area 3 is that in the description of the area it implies that there is a point marked 'B' on the map and if the characters study the floor up to this point 'B' they will magically learn the message. The problem comes when you look at the map and see that there is no point 'B'. Depending on where the DM places point 'B' the chance of finding the riddle can change.

 

[Corathon]

The module is designed for character levels 10 to 14. There are 20 "pregen" characters in the back of the module, each with suggested magic items. Players are supposed to roll their own hit points and pick their own spells. Players can take any mundane equipment they want, but they can't overburden themselves. They can also bring 1,000 gp in coins and 5,000 gp in gems. It is suggested that the DM give the players some extra magic and/or an extra level of experience if they are inexperienced and/or few in number. "Total novices" can also bring a man-at-arms each (no stats or suggested level is given for the men-at-arms).
PC's.

In early editions, "men-at-arms" meant zero-level fighters.

 

[Corathon]

Area 3: Entrance to the Tomb of Horrors

First, pit traps. There are five pit traps in the hallway. The Red Path will take you right into three of them. If you're poking ahead with a pole, you'll find a pit 2 out of 3 times. If you trigger one, there's a percentage chance (derived from your dexterity) that you won't fall in. At Dex 18, you have a 24% chance to avoid falling into a pit. The pits are only 10 feet deep, but they've got save or die poison spikes at the bottom of them.

My understanding is that the 1E thief can't make a Find Traps roll to detect the pits. The PHB says that the Find Traps ability "pertains to relatively small mechanical devices such as poison needles, spring blades and the like." Am I reading that correctly?

Hmm, I've always let thieves try to find things like pit traps using their skills. Maybe that's not BTB?

If so, then there isn't an easy mechanical way to look for the pits. The party either (a) uses a 10 foot pole and blunders into 1 out of 3 pits; (b) uses a "goblin mine detector" (a goat, hireling or PC played by your little brother); (c) uses flight or levitation; (d) gets lucky or (e) falls in. At any rate, I ain't seeing no clues to avoid the pits here. The PC's will have to rely on luck and/or ingenuity.

Actually there's the 2nd level clerical spell find traps, the 2nd level MU spell detect invisible (which show the seams along the edge of the trapdoor, as it finds secret doors in just that way) not to mention true seeing/sight. Also, the dwarven ability to find sliding/shifting walls or rooms.
And if anyone actually dies due to the posion the party's cleric isn't doing his job. The slow poison spell can reviev someone that failed a save vs. poison if done within 1 turn/level of "death".

 

[Stoat]

Hmm, I've always let thieves try to find things like pit traps using their skills. Maybe that's not BTB?

I have too. But I know I've seen folks around who didn't, and the text of the 1E PHB doesn't seem to allow it.

Actually there's the 2nd level clerical spell find traps, the 2nd level MU spell detect invisible (which show the seams along the edge of the trapdoor, as it finds secret doors in just that way) not to mention true seeing/sight. Also, the dwarven ability to find sliding/shifting walls or rooms.
And if anyone actually dies due to the posion the party's cleric isn't doing his job. The slow poison spell can reviev someone that failed a save vs. poison if done within 1 turn/level of "death".

Interesting. A DM running ToH is going to have to decide what to do with Find Traps. The module doesn't mention it, and it seems pretty powerful as written. I don't see where Detect Invisibility helps. Nothing in the PHB or this section of the Tomb talks about using it t find traps.

And Slow Poison! You're right, pretty much nobody should be killed by these pits.

 

[Stoat]

One thing of note about area 3 is that in the description of the area it implies that there is a point marked 'B' on the map and if the characters study the floor up to this point 'B' they will magically learn the message. The problem comes when you look at the map and see that there is no point 'B'. Depending on where the DM places point 'B' the chance of finding the riddle can change.

My copy of the adventure has a "B" at the very end of the hall, right in front of the Great Green Devil.

 

[Stoat]

Concealed doors are normal doors that are somehow hidden. They are easier to find than secret doors, and can be opened as a normal door once found. OTOH, secret doors need not only be found, but you must figure out how to open them.

I didn't know that. Can you give me a cite? I really haven't been able to find anything about secret/concealed doors in the books except for the Elves' chance to detect them.

 

[Ultimatecalibur]

My copy of the adventure has a "B" at the very end of the hall, right in front of the Great Green Devil.

You are going off of the hardcopy green version correct? I'm looking at the pink .pdf version.

If I understand right the pink version is the 1978 original "AD&D" publication and the green cover is the 1981 reprint.

 

[Ahzad]

i think they can find pit traps, I've always played it that way. The 1e DMG pg 19 says they can find small or large traps but not magical or magically hidden traps. I would say a pit trap is a large trap.

 

[Stoat]

Area 3: Entrance to the Tomb of Horrors (Acererak's Riddle)

The most important thing in the entrance hall is Acererak's Riddle. As a few folks have noted, finding it can be a challenge.

The players must carefully study the pattern on the floor from the entrance of the tunnel to a specific point at the back of the tunnel. If they do so, they will "suddenly understand" that a message is contained in barely noticeable runes on the floor.

[MENTION=59539]Ultimatecalibur[/MENTION] makes an interesting point. The map in the hardcopy version that I'm using (the one with the green cover) has a letter "B" on it. The letter is at the very end of the hall and shows the point that the PC's have to reach to gain the riddle. The .pdf (the older version with the pink cover) has no such mark.

This is Acererak's meassage in its entirety:

ACERERAK CONGRATULATES YOU ON YOUR POWERS OF OBSERVATION. SO MAKE OF THIS WHATEVER YOU WISH, FOR YOU WILL BE MINE IN THE END NO MATTER WHAT!

Go back to the tormentor or through the arch,
and the second great hall you'll discover.
Shun green if you can, but night's good color
is for those of great valor.
If shades of red stand for blood the wise
will not need sacrifice aught but a loop of
magical metal - you're well along your march.

Two pits along the way will be found to lead
to a fortuitous fall, so check the wall.
These keys and those are most important of all,
and beware of trembling hands and what will maul.
If you find the false you find the true
and into the columned hall you'll come,
and there the throne that's key and keyed.

The iron men of visage grim do more than
meets the viewers eye.
You've left and left and found my Tomb
and now your soul will die.

I'm not going to parse through the riddle right now. I plan to wait until we're done and then come back to it. But consider:

1. This is just about the only riddle you'll get. It is definitely the most detailed. It is hidden on the floor at the end of a pit-filled 130 foot long corridor, and the corridor is filled with distracting stuff. How many parties just flat missed it?

2. The riddle ostensibly leads you through the entire dungeon all the way to Acererak. To make use of it, the players need to be able to correlate where they are in the Tomb to the specific clues in the riddle. In some places, that's pretty difficult.

3. There's a lot of color imagery throughout the Tomb. Does it mean anything? Does Acererak use color consistently?

4. [MENTION=22238]Corathon[/MENTION] has me thinking about magic. The pregens include a 14th level Cleric and a 14th level Magic User. What happens when they cast Find Traps, True Seeing, Find the Path, Detect Invisible, etc., etc.? Unlike a lot of modules, the ToH doesn't seem to contain a blanket prohibition against spells like these. Certain traps are explicitly undetectable (we'll see one in Area 4), but otherwise it looks like the spellcasters can go a long way toward ameliorating the risks of the Tomb.