D&D General Wishing Away The Adventure

[Reynard]

I can see a person's surroundings while looking at them from 10 feet away without turning my head.

Oh, and it doesn't say anything about being unable to turn your head(the sensor). It doesn't move if you choose a location, but it does move if you pick a person.

Have you never seen a movie with a crystal ball or magic mirror?

 

[Maxperson]

Rogue's can't read scrolls?

See, here's what I don't understand: why are we trying to pretend the characters don't live in a magical world full of demi-god level characters who can warp reality, change shape, turn invisible, wrestle giants or slay dragons? Why are we trying to demand that an episode of Murder She Wrote be a viable experience in such a setting?

You can't warp reality without something supernatural going on. You can't change shape without something supernatural going on. You similarly cannot wrestle a giant(assuming human size) without something supernatural going on. I don't care if a martial character can eventually wrestle giants, but don't expect me to pretend it's not a supernatural ability.

But I'll bite. So the 5 hp noble gets ganked in his sleep and the high level PCs are called in to help find the killer. What are they going to do? Raise him and ask him who killed him? How would he know. he was sleeping at the time. "Who are your enemies?" Here's a list of 100 of them -- he's a noble. Their level doesn't mean they can snap their fingers and solve the mystery.

And that assumes that he even comes back. Most people are content in the afterlife or aren't allowed to leave by the demons/devils/evil gods that have the soul.

Speak with Dead would be the best bet, but as you point out he was asleep so probably wouldn't know who did it.

 

[Maxperson]

Have you never seen a movie with a crystal ball or magic mirror?

Yep. They typically show the person and that person's immediate surroundings(say 10 feet around) most of the time. Once in a while you just see the person. Not sure what that has to do with anything here, though. Movies aren't the spell which says and does what it says and does, which is show the target and 10 feet around the target as if you were standing there.

 

[Reynard]

You similarly cannot wrestle a giant(assuming human size) without something supernatural going on. I don't care if a martial character can eventually wrestle giants, but don't expect me to pretend it's not a supernatural ability.

This is a genre expectation thing. You might see it that way, but we have all seen Conan wrestle giant monsters and he is as far from supernatural as a fantasy hero gets.

 

[Reynard]

Yep. They typically show the person and that person's immediate surroundings(say 10 feet around) most of the time. Once in a while you just see the person. Not sure what that has to do with anything here, though. Movies aren't the spell which says and does what it says and does, which is show the target and 10 feet around the target as if you were standing there.

It is clear that the inspiration for how the spell works is the depiction of these things in inspirational media.

But in any case: this all started regarding whether one can use Scrying to get a good enough view of the location of the target to bamf in on them. The answer is: it depends. You see them as if you are standing 10 feet from them with no control over the location of the sensor or its orientation. It is possible that you can see through a window, or maybe the person literally walks home from wherever you find them. But Scrying is NOT a wizard eye. You do not have any control over it and cannot use it to inspect anything.

 

[Maxperson]

It is clear that the inspiration for how the spell works is the depiction of these things in inspirational media.

Which is entirely irrelevant when media has to present things in a way that conforms to the limits of that medium. Camera work and cinematography force it to appear a certain way, and an RPG doesn't have to conform to those limitations.

But in any case: this all started regarding whether one can use Scrying to get a good enough view of the location of the target to bamf in on them. The answer is: it depends. You see them as if you are standing 10 feet from them with no control over the location of the sensor or its orientation. It is possible that you can see through a window, or maybe the person literally walks home from wherever you find them. But Scrying is NOT a wizard eye. You do not have any control over it and cannot use it to inspect anything.

I assure you that I can pick out great detail in your surroundings if I am 10 feet from you and looking your way. I can't go over and inspect the microscopic details, but I can get enough detail to teleport there.

 

[Reynard]

Which is entirely irrelevant when media has to present things in a way that conforms to the limits of that medium. Camera work and cinematography force it to appear a certain way, and an RPG doesn't have to conform to those limitations.

I assure you that I can pick out great detail in your surroundings if I am 10 feet from you and looking your way. I can't go over and inspect the microscopic details, but I can get enough detail to teleport there.

How much information do you need to teleport there? It qualifies as "viewed once" so a 43% chance of mishap. Good luck.

 

[Maxperson]

How much information do you need to teleport there? It qualifies as "viewed once" so a 43% chance of mishap. Good luck.

Not really. As @EzekielRaiden pointed out, you are looking at it as you cast teleport, so you have an 24% chance of mishap.

""Very familiar" is a place you have been very often, a place you have carefully studied, or a place you can see when you cast the spell."

That's still a stupidly high chance of things going wrong and no sane party would use it, but it's not 73%.

 

[Reynard]

Not really. As @EzekielRaiden pointed out, you are looking at it as you cast teleport, so you have an 24% chance of mishap.

""Very familiar" is a place you have been very often, a place you have carefully studied, or a place you can see when you cast the spell."

That's still a stupidly high chance of things going wrong and no sane party would use it, but it's not 73%.

Right, i was thinking that teleport took longer. It is just an action, so sure.

 

[pemerton]

This is literally an example of that. Which is fine, if no one wanted survival aspects in the game begin with, but if someone did, the existence of this sort of magic still eliminates that as aspect of the game.

But if you don't want a certain sort of magic in your game, then you remove it! Eg, if you want overland travel to be an important focus of play, then don't include teleportation magic.

That is different from the idea of "bypassing potentially interesting stuff". There is endless potentially interesting stuff that does not depend up on overland travel being a focus of play.