D&D General Wishing Away The Adventure

[MGibster]

Has anyone ever actually done this, or seen it in play? Is it a valid concern? Why would players choose to avoid playing?

I litereally cannot remember the last time I played a game where a PC was able to cast wish. It must have been way back in the early to mid-1990s with 2nd edition.

 

[Oofta]

And then we teleport past those areas and hazards...

If you know where exactly you are going or the location does not prevent teleportation. There are many reasons the PCs have to go through the gauntlet. The goal is on a hidden plane that can only be accessed via a specific portal*. They don't know where the McGuffin is and the only way to find it is through exploration. They don't know who they're really after, the face for the BBEG is a fake. The goal is to solve a mystery and they have to find clues and bread crumbs. There are multiple goals, the McGuffin was broken into pieces and all the pieces need to be retrieved.

*Another aspect people seem to ignore about plane shift is the material component "a forked, metal rod worth at least 250 gp, attuned to a particular plane of existence." How easy it is to get that attuned metal rod is up to the DM.

 

[Maxperson]

Like I said before, if the characters have the capability, it makes sense for them to use it even if the players would like to actually do the adventure.

Why? Why would they use something that probably has at best a 25% chance of not only failing, but landing them in literal hot water or even another world? They will be using a major slot with a good chance of wasting it and putting themselves in danger and making them even farther away.

 

[Maxperson]

Sounds like that’s on them then. Bypass much of the adventure, bypass much of the fun/reward. Oh, well. Sucks to be them. At least they‘re picking what they want to do and engage with, right?

They literally can't be. Since they don't know what they would be engaging with the other way, they cannot be selecting what they want to engage with. You can't make a selection between a number things without knowing what the other things are.

 

[Maxperson]

The solution is, at least in part, to actually accept the limitations of even the high powered magic in D&D. Way too often people act as if high level magic is a "win button" when it very often isn't. This is usually easy: do what the book says. The scry discussion is a perfect example: it tells us exactly what it does. it only become OP if one decides to interpret it to mean other things. The key is to embrace the limitations so players can't argue themselves out of the fun.

Yes, and it exactly does show everything within 10 feet as if you are standing there. That's the mechanic, not the fluff part at the beginning. It's not OP because of some interpretation. It's "OP"(not really) because of what it does.

Some people want to gimp it and so are choosing fluff over mechanics for some reason and creating a contradiction in the process.

 

[Reynard]

Yes, and it exactly does show everything within 10 feet as if you are standing there. That's the mechanic, not the fluff part at the beginning. It's not OP because of some interpretation. It's "OP"(not really) because of what it does.

Some people want to gimp it and so are choosing fluff over mechanics for some reason and creating a contradiction in the process.

No flush, all crunch straight from the SRD:
----------
Casting Time:10 minutes
Range:Self
Components:V, S, M (a focus worth at least 1,000 gp, such as a crystal ball, a silver mirror, or a font filled with holy water)
Duration:Concentration, up to 10 minutes
You can see and hear a particular creature you choose that is on the same plane of existence as you. The target must make a Wisdom saving throw, which is modified by how well you know the target and the sort of physical connection you have to it. If a target knows you’re casting this spell, it can fail the saving throw voluntarily if it wants to be observed.

Knowledge	Save Modifier
Secondhand (you have heard of the target)	+5
Firsthand (you have met the target)	+0
Familiar (you know the target well)	−5

Connection	Save Modifier
Likeness or picture	−2
Possession or garment	−4
Body part, lock of hair, bit of nail, or the like	−10

On a successful save, the target isn’t affected, and you can’t use this spell against it again for 24 hours.

On a failed save, the spell creates an invisible sensor within 10 feet of the target. You can see and hear through the sensor as if you were there. The sensor moves with the target, remaining within 10 feet of it for the duration. A creature that can see invisible objects sees the sensor as a luminous orb about the size of your fist.
----------
That is pretty straight forward. You see the target in your crystal ball, magic mirror, or font of holy water as if you were 10 feet away from them. That's it.

This, however, is not straight forward:
----------
Instead of targeting a creature, you can choose a location you have seen before as the target of this spell. When you do, the sensor appears at that location and doesn’t move.
----------
What is a location? Is it a room, a building, a city? Where is the sensor now? What can you see? This should clearly have been a different spell like Greater Scrying.

 

[Maxperson]

There's always something. Even magical mounts and flying ships bypass things that they'd have to encounter with non-magical mounts and ships. Hell, even non-magical mounts allow PCs to bypass having to walk everywhere.

Teleporting is fun and it can certainly lead to adventure. We obtained a chunk of a statue from someone, we didn't know where it was from, but it enabled us to teleport us TO the adventure site because that was where it was from.

That's pretty cool and I'd probably allow it myself, but by RAW it doesn't work. Yes an associated object gives you a 100% success rate, but it doesn't negate the other portion of the spell which says, "The destination you choose must be known to you..."

 

[Maxperson]

No flush, all crunch straight from the SRD:
----------
Casting Time:10 minutes
Range:Self
Components:V, S, M (a focus worth at least 1,000 gp, such as a crystal ball, a silver mirror, or a font filled with holy water)
Duration:Concentration, up to 10 minutes
You can see and hear a particular creature you choose that is on the same plane of existence as you. The target must make a Wisdom saving throw, which is modified by how well you know the target and the sort of physical connection you have to it. If a target knows you’re casting this spell, it can fail the saving throw voluntarily if it wants to be observed.

Knowledge	Save Modifier
Secondhand (you have heard of the target)	+5
Firsthand (you have met the target)	+0
Familiar (you know the target well)	−5

Connection	Save Modifier
Likeness or picture	−2
Possession or garment	−4
Body part, lock of hair, bit of nail, or the like	−10

On a successful save, the target isn’t affected, and you can’t use this spell against it again for 24 hours.

On a failed save, the spell creates an invisible sensor within 10 feet of the target. You can see and hear through the sensor as if you were there. The sensor moves with the target, remaining within 10 feet of it for the duration. A creature that can see invisible objects sees the sensor as a luminous orb about the size of your fist.
----------
That is pretty straight forward. You see the target in your crystal ball, magic mirror, or font of holy water as if you were 10 feet away from them. That's it.

This, however, is not straight forward:
----------
Instead of targeting a creature, you can choose a location you have seen before as the target of this spell. When you do, the sensor appears at that location and doesn’t move.
----------
What is a location? Is it a room, a building, a city? Where is the sensor now? What can you see? This should clearly have been a different spell like Greater Scrying.

No. You can see and hear as if you were there. Period. Anything else is trying to twist things into another meaning. If you are there, what can you see within 10 feet of you? That's what the last sentence provides.

One thing you all are missing is the 10 minute duration. What the point of that?

Caster: "I have cast the spell on the kidnapped princess and I see her. She looks like the princess."
(6 seconds later)
Caster: "Well, she still looks like the princess."
(2 minutes later)
Caster: "No Grog, I can't see anything else. She still looks like the princess."
(4 minutes later)
Caster: "She has been walking and the sensor is following her. And no Grog, I don't know it bothers to follow her since I can only see that she looks like the princess!"

Everything else about the spell is nonsensical if you try to limit it to only the target and not the surroundings. The spell makes a statement at the beginning and then expands upon it at the end. That expansion is contradicted if you try and change what the spell does to only match that first sentence. That contradiction, as well as all the other portions of the spell that become nonsensical, show you to be wrong with your misinterpretation.

The spell duration and ability to follow the target only make sense if you can see the surroundings and study them as well.

 

[Reynard]

No. You can see and hear as if you were there. Period. Anything else is trying to twist things into another meaning. If you are there, what can you see within 10 feet of you? That's what the last sentence provides.

One thing you all are missing is the 10 minute duration. What the point of that?

Caster: "I have cast the spell on the kidnapped princess and I see her. She looks like the princess."
(6 seconds later)
Caster: "Well, she still looks like the princess."
(2 minutes later)
Caster: "No Grog, I can't see anything else. She still looks like the princess."
(4 minutes later)
Caster: "She has been walking and the sensor is following her. And no Grog, I don't know it bothers to follow her since I can only see that she looks like the princess!"

Everything else about the spell is nonsensical if you try to limit it to only the target and not the surroundings. The spell makes a statement at the beginning and then expands upon it at the end. That expansion is contradicted if you try and change what the spell does to only match that first sentence. That contradiction, as well as all the other portions of the spell that become nonsensical, show you to be wrong with your misinterpretation.

You get exactly as much information as you get looking at one person 10 feet away from you without looking around or turning you head. That is what the spell explicitly says.

 

[Maxperson]

You get exactly as much information as you get looking at one person 10 feet away from you without looking around or turning you head. That is what the spell explicitly says.

I can see a person's surroundings while looking at them from 10 feet away without turning my head.

Oh, and it doesn't say anything about being unable to turn your head(the sensor). It doesn't move if you choose a location, but it does move if you pick a person.