Wizard Spell per day?

[Sarck]

The only times you can replace lower level powers with higher level powers are at the times stated on the chart on pg 29 of the Player's Handbook. Those are 13th, 15th, 17th, 19th, 23rd, 25th, 27th, and 29th level. Otherwise, you can only use retraining to train some power of the same level or lower. That's straight from the description of retraining.

 

[Kesh]

I expect that Wizards are one of the "Exceptions" mentioned at the beginning of the PHB. While most classes must wait to replace their daily powers, wizards pile on more and more to choose from, and can select X of those per day to prepare, regardless of level.

 

[matthewseidl]

I think the real issue is what the meaning of 'what you can cast per day for your level' means. Some of us are taking that as X daily powers, and others as X daily powers from the levels you'd have if you didn't have this class feature.

Have we seen any example wizards from Wizards high enough level to have utility/daily powers at multiple levels? That might answer it. I'm definitely not as sure of my interpretation at this point, but it seems really strange to let wizards have 3 dailies, all from max level with Extended Spellbook. Higher level dailies are just better than lower level ones, and this would give wizards a bump up over every other class.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Higher level dailies are just better than lower level ones, and this would give wizards a bump up over every other class.

True, but other classes also have pretty powerful class features. It's probably just the wizard's "shtick" to have the best big guns.

Just like the ranger's quarry or the warlock's curse. Also, the power curve is much flatter than in 3E, I don't think the impact is as large as before (which may inspire the gut reaction of no - using 1st levels slots to prepare 3rd level spells in 3E...? Ugh!).

Cheers, LT.

 

[matthewseidl]

True, but other classes also have pretty powerful class features. It's probably just the wizard's "shtick" to have the best big guns.

Just like the ranger's quarry or the warlock's curse. Also, the power curve is much flatter than in 3E, I don't think the impact is as large as before (which may inspire the gut reaction of no - using 1st levels slots to prepare 3rd level spells in 3E...? Ugh!).

Cheers, LT.

Not sure I buy that. At level 9, with Extended Spellbook, a wizard could be rocking 3 level 9 dailies instead of a 9 a 9 a 5 and a 1.

Actually ... o.k. The level 9's aren't doing appreciably more damage than the 5's at least (and in fact, for instant damage fireball seems to win). The level 1's are pretty substandard compared to the 9's though. So it is an appreciable increase in power. Its also interesting that at level 30, with no feats, the Wizard will be choosing 4 dailies from a pool of 7 (2x 29, 2x 25, 2x 21 and 1x paragon). And 7 utility powers from a pool of 12 (1 epic destiny, 1 paragon path, 2x 2, 2x 6, 2x 10, 2x 16, 2x 22).

 

[WhatGravitas]

Actually ... o.k. The level 9's aren't doing appreciably more damage than the 5's at least (and in fact, for instant damage fireball seems to win). The level 1's are pretty substandard compared to the 9's though. So it is an appreciable increase in power. Its also interesting that at level 30, with no feats, the Wizard will be choosing 4 dailies from a pool of 7 (2x 29, 2x 25, 2x 21 and 1x paragon). And 7 utility powers from a pool of 12 (1 epic destiny, 1 paragon path, 2x 2, 2x 6, 2x 10, 2x 16, 2x 22).

As a note: The epic destiny and paragon path abilities are, AFAIK, "locked in", since they're not really part of the wizard powers and hence not subject to the spellbook.

And I think sleep is actually a keeper among the first level spells, as it gets a lot more brutal once you have a) more powers to keep monsters in a small field so you get them all, and b) get spell focus.

Well, the attack powers do not worry me, that's an extra damage dice, a bit of extra radius... you cannot take spells twice, so you cannot double up on your best control-ish spell - but preparing a lot of top-tier utilities worries me a bit (which is the reason why I'm not 100% sold on my own interpretation).

Cheers, LT.

 

[matthewseidl]

Well, the attack powers do not worry me, that's an extra damage dice, a bit of extra radius... you cannot take spells twice, so you cannot double up on your best control-ish spell - but preparing a lot of top-tier utilities worries me a bit (which is the reason why I'm not 100% sold on my own interpretation).
Cheers, LT.

I've actually been converted. I think the interpretation of 'memorize whatever you want that you know' is correct. And from some conversations with people I know on the inside, it appears to be the correct interpretation.

Another knock against those people complaining that a wizard has no choices any more. With 1 feat, getting to choose from 10 daily powers and 17 utility ones is a heck of a lot of flexibility.

 

[Kichwas]

I think I agree with the side of this debate that believes you can any of your dailies in the prep slots, as long as you don't use the same daily twice.

It achieves two changes from past editions:

1. No longer does a wizard have a long list of prepared spells they will never use. Almost every Wizard I've seen in play in the past keep the same prep list day in and day out with the bottom 2/3rds of it collecting dust - that chunk of never-users.

2. It somewhat makes up for a vastly smaller list of known spells. 4E wizards know less spells than a 3E sorcerer. Something needs to make up for that.

There is a chart for what you know... I don't think it is the same chart as a what you can use chart - which is notably lacking. The Wizard will still be prepping some lower spells from simply not having enough 'daily spots', but it's not a set list anymore.

So... that 5th level wizard who knows 4 daily spells, up to 2 of which can be level 5, could in a day cast two different level 5s, two different level 1s, or a level 5 and a level 1 - provided only that the same spell was not cast twice.

But I'm also interested in seeing an example or clarification from WotC.