Worst Race?

[small pumpkin man]

IIRC Pactblades are a 3rd level magic item. If they're hard to get it's your DM's fault.

Man, I wrote that ages ago . I didn't mean that pact blades in particular were hard to get, but that they were essentially unique in their state of "easy to get weapon & implement combo". Holy Avengers are absurdly high level and and Clerics need a feat to use them. At the time I didn't realize Wizards could just use staves (although staves do suck as a weapon, and aren't great as a Wizard implement choice).

I suppose it's good because it promotes choice. It just looks like a lot of hoops at first glance, and multiclassing allready has a lot of hoops.

 

[MindWanderer]

No, I'm pretty sure they're fey AND natural - and there are no bonuses for being any certain type. Only penalties.

Nope. You can only have one origin. And in the MM, they're "Medium fey humanoid."

They don't make "great" archery rangers because rangers have no int-based abilities at all. None. Not a single one. There are also zero Int-based feats that are useful to rangers in specific (Linguist and Jack of All Trades could be "useful" but they're hardly a reason to pump up your Int all of their own). Their racial skills are irrelevant for rangers, their racial power is not very useful for archery rangers in particular (since most archery powers give you a shift in addition to the damage).

The only class they're ideally suited for is the dex-int based wizard. No other class makes extensive use of both intelligence and dexterity, and intelligence has zero bonuses to a typical character that dexterity doesn't already give.

So to be good at a class, you have to make sense of both of your attribute bonuses, or have a class feature that synergises well? Let's see, then:

- Humans: Only one +2, so that already puts them at a disadvantage. The extra skill is okay, but it has to be a class skill (unlike the Eladrin's bonus skill). The bonus feat is only good if there's something you're absolutely dying for, and even then you just have to be a little patient (you get more feats in 4e than there are really good feats to have). So they're no good at anything.
- Elves: Good archery rangers, given. Being able to shift in difficult terrain is meh most of the time. And no one but a ranger or ranger multiclass will get much use out of the bow prof. So they're good at only one class.
- Half-elves: Good star-pact warlocks by stat bonuses. Their abilities are useless from the perpective of any one class. So again, just one class they're good at.
- Dwarves: Nothing by stat bonuses. Dwarven Resilience is good for anyone. So a solid choice for con- or wis- based builds (some fighters, infernal-pact warlocks), and that's about it.
- Halflings. Trickster rogues. Second Chance is, like Dwarven Resilience, nice for anyone but not especially nice for any one. Small weapons hurt all weapon-using classes except rogue. So they're good fey-pact warlocks as well.
- Dragonborn: They look like good paladins, but it's a trap because of 4-way MAD. Inspiring Warlord, however, works well, as does melee cleric. If you like their racial features, you can pretend they get a Con bonus, because they need Con to make use of them. That makes them good Con-based fighters, and warlocks of any type.
- Tiefling: Fey-pact warlocks are the only class their ability scores lend them to, and none of their other abilities are class-specific. Their one really good ability is tied to Cha, so they can make good paladins and tolerable inspiring warlords. Good trickster rogues, too, due to their skill bonuses.

So we have 1 race good in 0 classes, 3 races good in 1 class, 2 good in 2 classes, and 2 races good at 4 classes. All this is build-specific, of course. In that context, using this type of evaluation, eladrin aren't exceptionally bad. Oddly, tieflings come out as winners, tied with dragonborn.

 

[Zurai]

So to be good at a class, you have to make sense of both of your attribute bonuses, or have a class feature that synergises well?

Nope. Don't go putting words in my mouth - or pretending you said something you didn't. You claimed they made "great" rangers (as opposed to "good" fighters, warlocks, and warlords). I said they did not make "great" rangers, and that the only class they were ideally suited for was whichever implement it is for wizards that concentrates on dex + int. I never said they had to use both attribute bonuses to be good at a class. Actually, I've said elsewhere that Eladrin make pretty decent Rangers. They just aren't "great" at it. They're better than, say, Dragonborn, but they're worse than Humans or Elves.

 

[Kitirat]

Nope. Don't go putting words in my mouth - or pretending you said something you didn't. You claimed they made "great" rangers (as opposed to "good" fighters, warlocks, and warlords). I said they did not make "great" rangers, and that the only class they were ideally suited for was whichever implement it is for wizards that concentrates on dex + int. I never said they had to use both attribute bonuses to be good at a class. Actually, I've said elsewhere that Eladrin make pretty decent Rangers. They just aren't "great" at it. They're better than, say, Dragonborn, but they're worse than Humans or Elves.

It is interesting that after so many votes half-elves are still far and away voted weak most often. I've found a solution for my homebrew campaign but in my world everyone gets a regional boon based on their location (such as a free language and a bonus to a skill most commonly). Otherwise I removed the group diplomacy since it does not jive with my world. Here ya go:

Born heroes and leaders who combine the best features of humans and elves, half-elves have been forced to learn diplomacy to survive in the relentless realm of the northern lights. Unlike in other realms, being near a half-elf will often bring less instead of more tolerance to their allies. However through this struggle, the half-elves have found themselves even more adaptable to their surroundings.
RACIAL TRAITS
Average Height: 5´ 5˝–6´ 2˝
Average Weight: 130–190 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common, Elven, choice of one other
Skill Bonuses: +2 Diplomacy, +2 Insight

Dilettante: At 1st level, you choose an at-will power from a class different from yours. You can use that power as an encounter power.
Dual Heritage: You can take feats that have either elf or human as a prerequisite (as well as those specifically for half-elves), as long as you meet any other requirements.
Culturally Adaptive: You may take an additional regional boon. It does not have to be from your starting region, however it must be from a northern region if you’re a northerner, or from the south if a southerner. Bonuses to the same skill take the higher of the boons bonuses to each category and resistances to the same type take the higher of the amounts.








New Heroic Feats

Hybrid Synergy
Prerequisites: Half-elf
Effect: You may recharge any encounter ability gained from your dilettante racial ability or any multi-class feat whenever you use an action point. The recharged ability can be used as part of the action gained by the action point.
Regional Adaption
Prerequisites: Half-elf
Effect: You may choose a new regional boon from a region you have visited during your last level. Bonuses to skills and resistances take the highest in each category. This feat may be taken multiple times, even gaining different boons from the same region, but only once per level.

Paragon Feats
Diversification
Prerequisites: Half-elf
Effect: You may take a heroic tier encounter power from a class different than yours. You can use that power as a daily power.

Epic Feats
Hybrid Strength
Prerequisites: Half-elf
Effect: You may recharge any encounter ability gained from your dilettante racial ability or any multi-class feat whenever you use an action point. The recharged ability can be used as part of the action gained by the action point. Alternately, you may recharge your diversification daily power instead of an encounter power with your hybrid synergy ability.

 

[Anax]

- Humans: Only one +2, so that already puts them at a disadvantage. The extra skill is okay, but it has to be a class skill (unlike the Eladrin's bonus skill). The bonus feat is only good if there's something you're absolutely dying for, and even then you just have to be a little patient (you get more feats in 4e than there are really good feats to have). So they're no good at anything.

What about the way they get three of their class's at-will powers rather than two like every other race?

 

[MindWanderer]

What about the way they get three of their class's at-will powers rather than two like every other race?

In most cases, that's a trap as well, paragon multiclassing (which is also a trap, IMO) being an exception.

- Cleric: There's 2 Wis at-wills and two Str ones. For three to be decent, you have to be a hybrid melee/laser cleric, which is a suboptimal build.
- Fighter: Cleave and either Reaping Strike or Tide of Iron are your two starters. Shield users can take Reaping Strike, and it's not horrible, but two-weapon fighters are stuck with the useless Sure Strike.
- Paladin: Same deal as the cleric. A third at-will is only if you opted to go hybrid Str/Cha and make Wis tertiary (and thus, by level 28 it will be hugely behind).
- Ranger: There's one ranged power, one melee power, and two ranged or melee. So again, unless you're a hybrid, you have no freedom of choice... and you get Careful Attack, which is useless.
- Rogue: Here, being a human is pretty good. You get your choice of either Riposte Strike or Sly Flourish, then both Deft Strike and Piercing Strike. All good choices.
- Warlock: For Fey pact warlocks, the two Con-based powers aren't helpful. Picking up Dire Radiance for an Infernal pact warlock, or either of the other two for a Star pact warlock, is fine. So humans can have some benefit here. On the other hand, all three at-will pact powers are pretty similar in function. Not horrible, not great.
- Warlord: Another solid use for a human. Commander's Strike for tactical warlords, Furious Smash for inspiring warlords, Viper's Strike and Wolf Pack Tactics for both. The extra tactical options should appeal to warlord players. Thumbs up.
- Wizard: No argument here. If I were to play a wizard, I'd be human, hands down. I'd take a fourth at-will if I could get it somehow.

So humans are, IMO, well-suited for only three classes by virtue of this feature.

Nope. Don't go putting words in my mouth - or pretending you said something you didn't. You claimed they made "great" rangers (as opposed to "good" fighters, warlocks, and warlords). I said they did not make "great" rangers, and that the only class they were ideally suited for was whichever implement it is for wizards that concentrates on dex + int. I never said they had to use both attribute bonuses to be good at a class. Actually, I've said elsewhere that Eladrin make pretty decent Rangers. They just aren't "great" at it. They're better than, say, Dragonborn, but they're worse than Humans or Elves.

Oh, I'll stand by "great," because I was trying to use what I inferred as your criteria rather than my own. Fey Step is sheer awesomeness for a ranger of either type: a TWF ranger can teleport in to melee without getting his fragile butt beat on en route, or teleport out of trouble afterwards, and an archery ranger can teleport to a well-defended spot like a ledge and snipe. The Dex increase plus this make them a top ranger choice in my book. Since few "ideally-suited" race/class combinations exist (dragonborn melee cleric and inspiring warlord, elf archery ranger, half-elf star pact warlock, halfling trickster rogue, and tiefling fey pact warlock), at least compared to the gamut of combinations possible, saying that they're not "ideally suited" to anything isn't helpful--neither are dwarves or humans, and only dragonborn are only "ideally suited" for more than one particular build.

 

[med stud]

The half elf's ability to take an at-will power as an encounter power is one of the abilities that looks worse on paper than it is. Since a combat is 4-6 rounds long and you would vary the use of at will powers anyways, you don't have to notice the change from at will to per encounter. Since you also can pick any at will power, you can often pick an ability that rounds your character out. The examples I think about immidiatly are Eyebite and Schorching burst, both of which can be very nice and they don't necessarily need to be spammed.

 

[Zurai]

saying that they're not "ideally suited" to anything isn't helpful--neither are dwarves or humans, and only dragonborn are only "ideally suited" for more than one particular build.

I strongly disagree. Humans are pretty ideal for nearly every class on the strength of always having a maximized primary stat and on the strength of the Human racial feats. Seriously, just Action Surge makes Humans incredible for any class - it's one of the best feats in the game by far. Compare Action Surge to Eladrin Soldier for a laugh.

 

[Spatula]

Dwarves are worse off in that sense, as only a fighter would use Wisdom and Con for class powers, and even then, it's feat related, and the bonus is not in the Fighter's primary stat of STR, but in a pair of secondaries ... with CON not being a "save stat" in that case.
...On the flip side, Dragonborn has 4 [Cleric, Paladin, Rogue and Warlord], Elves have 3 [Fighter, Ranger, Wizard] and Tiefling has 2 [Warlock and Warlord].

Dragonborn don't make good rogues if dwarves don't make good fighters. Rogues would want a good Str or a good Cha but probably not both, and in any case their primary stat is Dex. Similarly, how do elves make great fighters and not dwarves, when you don't need Dex (except for blade feats) and Wis is a "secondary" stat?

 

[Spatula]

The only class they're ideally suited for is the dex-int based wizard. No other class makes extensive use of both intelligence and dexterity, and intelligence has zero bonuses to a typical character that dexterity doesn't already give.

Eladrin are also suited for blade-using tactical warlords. Which kinda echoes the earlier point that in all the discussion of certain stat combos being worthless, people are entirely discounting feat prereqs.