D&D General WotC Has Owned D&D Longer Than TSR Did

As Matt Forbeck pointed out on Twitter, WotC has owned D&D for 24 years since it purchased TSR in 1997. TSR created D&D in 1974, 23 years before WotC bought it.

 

[GreyLord]

As someone who went from OD&D and AD&D and then after a long period of non-gaming started back up with D&D 5e, I'm not buying it. The core of D&D is still there. The spirit is there. It is a different version of the same game, but it is the same game.

The core game is the same with the groupings of many of the games I mentioned. Each grouping (for example, Bridge, Hearts, and Spades) are all from the same root and the same game supposedly initially, though some of them you have to go pretty far back.

In fact, some of them have MORE in common in rules and spirit than AD&D and OD&D does with 3e, 4e, and 5e. (though admittedly, some may be harder to see in their root, where as some are rather easy to see, such as the connection between the listed card games).

As I said, if you consider 5 card draw and Texas Hold Em the same game (and, in fact, they are both the same game in theory, both being versions of Poker), I can see why you would consider TSR D&D and Hasbro D&D the same game.

However, if you do not, well...Texas Hold Em and 5 card draw are probably closer in spirit and rules than the two different eras of D&D. The Newer D&D replaced the Older D&D...much like Monopoly has replaced the Landlord's game.

 

[reelo]

Is there any question that the game is dozens of orders of magnitude better off now than it was in say, 1981?

Considering the fact that 1981 is the year TSR released BX D&D (Moldvay/Cook/Marsh) which is widely regarded as the most elegant version of D&D there ever was, the answer to your question is "NO."

 

[GreyLord]

Can you give us some details about? How it is ended with Silver Munches?

Well, Regional books continued to be printed after that, but some of them had a bit more crunchiness to them...so...not sure???

Today, it is interesting on how that is reflected as well. Most of the Books released have quite a BIT of crunch to them. You don't really see anything released that is similar to the Regional "rum" books today in 5e, though you do see adventures which may be seen to have quite a bit of rum within...

So...

 

[DaveMage]

The question I have is will 5th edition end up being the longest active-supported edition in D&D history, or will WotC go for a new edition with the D&D 50th anniversary in 2024? (Or thereabouts.)

With all of the concerns about legacy issues still present when 5th edition was released (but somewhat addressed in Tasha's), will that be enough to keep 5E around as is for several more years?

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

The games franchises can't be frozen but they have to change with the new times. It is not only with the gameplay of Sonic or Mario Bros, with their success and failures, but also some IPs from speculative fiction need a reboot. For example the superheroes from the golden age (near 40's) today need an updated look, and not only for the suit and uniforms. We shouldn't reject all the changes, but only select the right ones.

 

[Ringtail]

The question I have is will 5th edition end up being the longest active-supported edition in D&D history, or will WotC go for a new edition with the D&D 50th anniversary in 2024? (Or thereabouts.)

With all of the concerns about legacy issues still present when 5th edition was released (but somewhat addressed in Tasha's), will that be enough to keep 5E around as is for several more years?

Pathfinder 1e ran for about 10 years I believe, and that was a game many people believed wasn't going to get a second edition, or shouldn't get a second edition.

As for D&D, I remember seeing discussions about 6e or 5.5 around 2019, around the 5 year mark. We're passed that now, so I think we'll probably make it to 10 years of 5e, but I would be pretty surprised, if there wasn't a new edition by then. HOWEVER, I wouldn't be surprised if WoTC going forward went with more of a "live-serivce" model you see in certain video games. Continuing to release material that is broadly compatible but changes the game. This is easier done with websites like D&D Beyond, though of course a new PHB would have to be printed eventually. Given some of the changes to race/ancestry from Tasha's which they are rolling forward, we might already be looking at this.

 

[Alzrius]

Something from ALMOST 20 years ago:

This is a story about the elves who work in Gameland. The elves write recipe books ... two kinds of books in particular: books about Donut Cores, and books about Forgotten Rums. The Donut Core books had a lot of recipes (the elves called many-recipe books "crunchy books" for a reason that is too long to relate here), and gave a lot of suggestions about things you could make with Donut Cores, but didn't have a lot of history and interesting descriptions of where the Donut Cores came from, their history, or famous people who used Donut Cores. The Forgotten Rums books were less crunchy, but had the stories behind the Rum recipes, history of where the Rums come from, and information on the people who make those Rums. Still, the elves knew that a lot of people like the Donut Core books and a lot of people like the Forgotten Rums books, so they continued to make both kinds.

Unfortunately, the elves are ruled by a foolish but powerful race called the Bean-Counters. The Bean-Counters are are only concerned with beans. Not fun, not adherence to the old ways, just beans. The more beans, the better. They didn't even soak the beans before they ate them ... they liked things crunchy.

One day, after three of the Rums books were printed, the Bean-Counters took a look at the number of books the elves sold in their shop, and they had questions. They went to the elves' workshop, ensnared a few in nets, and dragged them back to Castle Meeting-Room for interrogation.

"We have been looking at your books," the Bean-Counters say, "and of these Forgotten Rums books, two are very crunchy--the Forgotten Rums Camping Session and Magic of Fae Rum--and one is not so crunchy--Lords of Rumness. Now, the average Donut Core book sells 75 copies, and the two crunchy books sold 75-100 copies. But the less crunchy book only sold 40 copies. We are concerned because your next Forgotten Rums book, The Sliver Munches, is just as less-crunchy as the Lords of Rumness book. We don't think people will buy it. We want all of your books to be more crunchy, even the Forgotten Rums books. Take out some of that history, stories, and crap, and put in more crunchy. MORE CRUNCHY!"

The elves were frightened and confused. "But part of the appeal of the Forgotten Rums books is their non-crunchy parts! People like learning about where the Rums come from, famous Rums-makers, and stories behind the Rums-recipes."

"MORE CRUNCHY!!" came the reply.

"But," the elves protested, "forty books still a respectable number! Why, only a few years ago, we were lucky to sell 10 copies of one of our books. Forty books is wonderful!"

"MORE CRUNCHY!!!" the Bean-Counters bellowed. "But," still trying to get through the soggy much that fills a Bean-Counter's head, "a Forgotten Rums book costs more to buy than a Donut Core book! We make more money with each Forgotten Rums book of the same size than a Donut Core book! More money means more beans!"

That seemed to get through to one of the less mushy parts of the Bean-Counter's brain. "Still, we like it when you sell 75-100 copies better. Selling 75-100 looks better than selling only 40, especially to our evil overlords, the Haze Brothers, who do not understand beans, only things sold."

The Bean-Counters scratched each others' heads (for their heads were so swollen with power that their feeble, never-have-done work arms could not reach every part of their own heads and so they had to help each other with the scratching) and thought. After a week of thinking (during which time the elves became very bored and hungry, as they were still trapped in the nets used to drag them to Castle Meeting-Room), the Bean-Counters made a decision.

"We will give you a sort of test to see if what you say is true--that people like the books that are not crunchy. We will look at how well this next book, The Sliver Munches, does. If it does better than Lords of Rumness, then we will look favorably upon these other Forgotten Rums books you want to do--Raisins of Fae Rum and ... I cannot read the title of this next 'regional book,' but it does not matter--and let you make them. If The Sliver Munches doesn't do better than Lords of Rumness, we will make you change what the Forgotten Rums books are all about. You will take out the stories, and histories, and people, and make it crunchy. Oh so crunchy...."

"But that will ruin the nature of the Forgotten Rums! Why call it a Forgotten Rums book at all if it's going to be exactly like a Donut Core book?"

"People will buy it just because it says 'Forgotten Rums' on it."

"Do we have any choice in accepting this test?"

"No."

And so the elves were released, and they went back to their tree-houses and hill-houses. They wept and prayed, for they knew the Forgotten Rums were at stake, and they knew that the people who bought Forgotten Rums books would never understand why the books were changed if they failed the test of the Bean-Counters.

They sent out a silent wish that people would like and buy The Sliver Munches. They hoped that people would talk about the things they liked about The Sliver Munches, which would encourage other people to take a look at it. And they hoped that people interested in The Sliver Munches would pick it up in the first three months after the book was released, for the Bean-Counters carefully watch those first 90 days and virtually ignore the rest. The doom of the Forgotten Rums was nigh, and only quick interest in a quality book could save it.

. . . . .

End of story.

- Sean

Man do I feel old. I remember when Sean wrote that and everyone was buzzing about it (though I never thought of it as the "Forgotten Rum" story, but rather as the "Sliver Munches" story). I'd already bought Silver Marches by that point, and remember hoping that others would do the same. While it didn't quite turn out that way, I wasn't dissatisfied with the crunch-to-fluff ratio that was subsequently established; Power of Faerûn, for instance, had a great mix of both.

Please note my use of affiliate links in this post.

 

[Garmorn]

Never thought of that. I did my military service the year after it fell. Now I am feeling old.

I had been in the Army for over ten years that that time. Consider this, I started playing Fantasy Trip before AD&D 1e was fully out. This really makes me feel my decades.

A virtual cookie if any remembers who wrote Fantasy trip.

 

[Blue Orange]

I had been in the Army for over ten years that that time. Consider this, I started playing Fantasy Trip before AD&D 1e was fully out. This really makes me feel my decades.

A virtual cookie if any remembers who wrote Fantasy trip.

Steve Jackson no? The Illuminati guy?

Given the large number of OSR indies I'd say there's some interest in older forms of D&D. Thing is the original 1st ed was kind of disorganized and had rules nobody used (remember the to-hit modifiers for each weapon (including all of Gary's polearms) for each armor class? the rules on catching diseases and parasites?), so it tends not to get knocked off as much. BECMI D&D had fewer rules, so it's easier to pick up and still familiar to people playing newer versions. Plus everyone knows what 'Dungeons & Dragons' is.

 

[Garmorn]

Steve Jackson no? The Illuminati guy?

Given the large number of OSR indies I'd say there's some interest in older forms of D&D. Thing is the original 1st ed was kind of disorganized and had rules nobody used (remember the to-hit modifiers for each weapon (including all of Gary's polearms) for each armor class? the rules on catching diseases and parasites?), so it tends not to get knocked off as much. BECMI D&D had fewer rules, so it's easier to pick up and still familiar to people playing newer versions. Plus everyone knows what 'Dungeons & Dragons' is.

One cookie. I think it was his first published game.

As far as the rule comment, yea, that is one thing I like about 5e. Very rules light and consistent. while still being very playable from both sides of the screen. I never got a chance to play BECMI or even look at the rules.