WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

[demoss]

[deleted my own hyperbole]

 

[Cadence]

They threatened him with the sheriff, with jail time, and with huge fines, after trying to force their way through his door and interrogating his neighbors. That's not "asking him."

Putting their foot in the door to stop it from shutting it is bad! Itdoesn't seem like what most people think of as "forcing their way through the door".

Lying about jail time for something seems bad too!

"They tried to force their way in and threatened him into giving up the cards" seems an overstatement to the common usages of the words based on what we know? Which doesn't mean what they did is good!

 

[Bedrockgames]

You seem to be giving full credence to the more dramatic and negative details Cannon has furnished, while disregarding the less damning ones. Like that the agents did indeed ask. Or that after they made his wife upset he told them to be more respectful and step outside, and they obeyed both instructions. Neither of which would follow if they were trying to force their way into his home, physically intimidate or rob him.

This doesn't paint a very good picture of the agents behavior. We don't fully know what happened. But that they had to be asked to step outside out of concerns they were upsetting his wife, suggests they were at least making the household uncomfortable. And of course they would obey the request to step outside because it is his house, they have to.

There is often a lot of confusion in situations like this. It is hard to say exactly what happened and what someone meant by accusing them of forcing their way into the home, but it doesn't follow that both can't be true (they could easily have been overly aggressive in the initial interaction and then when he said they were upsetting his wife, realized they needed to roll back their behavior). We won't know until we get more information from people who aren't WOTC or Cannon. But the statements by WOTC do not seem to be a complete denial of events. They are using a lot of careful phrasing (a lot like they did throughout the OGL), saying things like they never gave instructions for anyone to be intimidated (well of course they didn't, I wouldn't expect them to do that even if they had sent Pinkerton knowing it would be intimidating to do so).

I don't think we can accuse any individuals of wrong doing here until we know all the facts but I really don't think any of this improves WOTC's reputation here (especially on the heels of the whole OGL thing).

That said, very possible facts change things. Very possible his account is either not 100% what happened, contains errors or even intentional inaccuracies. But the same is true of WOTC. And we at least have confirmation that these people did in fact show up at his house and it was related to some magic cards. I still don't like the idea of a game company using a security agency in this way.

 

[LeviKornelsen]

This doesn't paint a very good picture of the agents behavior. We don't fully know what happened. But that they had to be asked to step outside out of concerns they were upsetting his wife, suggests they were at least making the household uncomfortable. And of course they would obey the request to step outside because it is his house, they have to.

To me, the tactics described sound like what Repo Men do when, well, repossessing property (except they have a legal claim to it). Come in hard, keep talking, don't do anything technically illegal, but steamroll right over the subject's idea of what proper and predictable behavior is as if you've got much more authority than you do. Half authority-intimidation, half confidence game.

I'm comfortable with calling it "seizing", myself; it's loaded, absolutely, and loaded the right amount for how I see it, though it's not a legal seizure.

Raid or theft, though, are... it's not those.

 

[eyeheartawk]

To me, the tactics describe sound like what Repo Men do when, well, repossessing property (except they have a legal claim to it). Come in hard, keep talking, don't do anything technically illegal, but steamroll right over the subject's idea of what proper and predictable behavior is as if you've got much more authority than you do. Half authority-intimidation, half confidence game.

I'm comfortable with calling it "seizing", myself; it's loaded, absolutely, and loaded the right amount for how I see it, though it's not a legal seizure.

Raid or theft, though, are... it's not those.

If you're gonna be a repo man, be the fun kind.

 

[Bedrockgames]

To me, the tactics describe sound like what Repo Men do when, well, repossessing property (except they have a legal claim to it). Come in hard, keep talking, don't do anything technically illegal, but steamroll right over the subject's idea of what proper and predictable behavior is as if you've got much more authority than you do. Half authority-intimidation, half confidence game.

I'm comfortable with calling it "seizing", myself; it's loaded, absolutely, and loaded the right amount for how I see it, though it's not a legal seizure.

Raid or theft, though, are... it's not those.

I am not accusing them of stealing anything as I don't know what the legal state of the cards would be in this case (and I don't have enough information). I am less concerned about that element than with the simple fact that they are resorting to this kind of tactic over cards. But sure, some of it does remind me of repo men tactics. I don't know that would make it any better (if you've ever had anything repossessed, especially by people who walked or stepped over legal lines, it can feel like dealing with criminals or people abusing their legal authority (and there is a lot of crime and organized crime associated with repossession companies: not that that is what is going on here)

 

[demoss]

If they are conducting an investigation, and from the timing of this it would appear that the cards had not reached distribution channels yet, you would normally want to secure the physical objects first. Usually you do this by making a request or demand.

Either way, some went out too soon because one or more people messed up - but how does that become "stolen property" instead of "breach of contract" for the person(s) who broke the embargo?

I guess it's possible that whatever bits of system they passed through never owned them, and therefore could not sell them, but don't distributors normally own their stock?

 

[LeviKornelsen]

I am not accusing them of stealing anything as I don't know what the legal state of the cards would be in this case (and I don't have enough information).

Sorry, tangled up a couple thoughts there; the stealing bit was actually from a different post than yours.

 

[payn]

If you're gonna be a repo man, be the fun kind.

Not the kind WotC sends?

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Note that Ford went after Cena, not the guy he sold the car to. Just because Cena broke his contract with Ford, it didn't change that ownership of the car had been legally transferred.

Yeah, that's what I said.