WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

[Olrox17]

"Wizards of the Coast says it “strongly refutes this depiction of events, which contradicts both the report from the investigation as well as the conversation between the individual and the Wizards of the Coast representative after the interaction in question.” The company also stated that “under no circumstances would we instruct any employee or contracted agency to intimidate an individual.”"

From the same article.

No one on this board has the full facts of this story. Can we back off the rhetoric that reinforces our own personal views please? Just look at the details of this event with neutrality, objectivity and logic.

And what are the details of the event? Wotc just refuted a version of the events, without providing another. You'll have to excuse me if, in the meantime, I tend to believe that the infamous PI group might have done some questionable (or possibly illegal) things.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

And what are the details of the event? Wotc just refuted a version of the events, without providing another. You'll have to excuse me if, in the meantime, I tend to believe that the infamous PI group might have done some questionable (or possibly illegal) things.

I don't know. And neither do you.

 

[Olrox17]

I don't know. And neither do you.

So somebody reporting a crime (or something questionable/immoral) being committed against them shouldn't be believed, ever, unless we have footage or something? That's certainly a position.
Innocent until proven guilty is good in court, but in the court of deciding where to spend my own money, I will not be satisfied by dry corp speak.

 

[Retros_x]

Why? Knocking on a door and asking for return of stolen goods seems fair enough, despite being rather heavy handed

That was not "asking". Where I live you need to go to authorities and not send some private goons threatening citizens. But what to expect from a country that arms their teachers.

 

[Cadence]

Some questions to start my Saturday morning...

If one doesn't send an overnight signature needed FedEx, or leave a voice mail (only wants the live call), or doesn't email... is there a reason for that besides not wanting to leave a record?

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How do you phrase the written thing so that it doesn't just end up posted with the video/spoilers proving they're legit? Is the fix to that worry to include a copyright take down notice?

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Say they had done those other things (they apparently didn't), and wanted to reach out in person, it strikes me as kind of absurd for folks to expect them to send an employee. What's the lawsuit when someone on an office staff or warehouse staff has something to sideways on a house call they aren't trained to make and isn't in their job description? (Checks news for things relevant to showing up at strangers' houses). But then again, I wonder how it differs from sending them to the store to get things for the office party or an emergency thing or printer paper.

So, if your company needs to talk to someone in person and the Fed-Ex/email/call didn't work... are in person messenger services a thing? I'm assuming so.

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What does someone who stuck their foot in your door to stop it from closing get charged with? (It feels like there should be something if they don't immediately take it out when you ask.) Would an armed person with their foot in the door who doesn't leave have potentially legally lethal implications in some states based on their particular castle doctrine laws?

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People keep saying "send a lawyer". Who does a major law firm send to do things like talk to the person about where they got product if the things (WotC apparently didn't try) failed?

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I'm kind of surprised the cards would have been at a retailer this early without a distributor screwing up? Have there been any stories reporting on the retailer he got them from?

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Thinking in general on breaking release dates. If a customer who knows what they're doing convinces someone at a store who doesn't know better to sell them product early (which could get the store in trouble), the store messed up by not having better controls, but trying to convince an employee to do something you know they shouldn't is a pretty excremental thing too, right?

If you went to your FLGS and got the wrong product that you know you shouldn't have and didn't go back to swap it... does that make you kind of undeserving of having a FLGS. (Is it different if they're an unfriendly LGD or box store? It feels different in some ways and not in others to me).

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Intellectual property is property. The clue is in the name.

No it's not. "Intellectual property" is an informal term, made up to obscure the fact that copyrights, patents etc are not the same thing as property.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

So somebody reporting a crime (or something questionable/immoral) being committed against them shouldn't be believed, ever, unless we have footage or something? That's certainly a position.
Innocent until proven guilty is good in court, but in the court of deciding where to spend my own money, I will not be satisfied by dry corp speak.

Well, that's not what I said was it? I said to look at both sides in an objective and neutral stance. If you were picked to be on a jury, your ethical (and legal) requirement would be to do just that.

In the 'court of deciding where to spend your money'... there, yes, you can let whatever whims you like guide you, ethics and facts be damned.

 

[Olrox17]

Well, that's not what I said was it? I said to look at both sides in an objective and neutral stance. If you were picked to be on a jury, your ethical (and legal) requirement would be to do just that.

In the 'court of deciding where to spend your money'... there, yes, you can let whatever whims you like guide you, ethics and facts be damned.

Nobody here is a juror at a trial currently, but ok, let’s look at both sides objectively.
One side is a private citizen and it’s accusing the other, a mega corp, of employing contractors that did something that is either a very morally suspect action or a crime.
The mega corp is flatly denying the accusation without adding much info. Basically the corp version of “nah fam I dinnae do it”.

Whatever really happened, the end result of the event was that the uninvited contractors walked away of a private citizen’s house with his property in their bags.
Yeah I think that, unless more info comes out, I’m going to believe the accuser for the time being.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

No it's not. "Intellectual property" is an informal term, made up to obscure the fact that copyrights, patents etc are not the same thing as property.

I wasn't claiming it was a formal term.

And what I find astonishing is the people who are attacking WotC for defending their intellectual property (an INFORMAL term), are the exact same people who are leaping to the defence of artists and writers against AI systems.

It's basically one law for corporations (boo hiss) and another for individuals (yay).

Massive hypocrisy.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Nobody here is a juror at a trial currently, but ok, let’s look at both sides objectively.
One side is a private citizen and it’s accusing the other, a mega corp, of employing contractors that did something that is either a very morally suspect action or a crime.
The mega corp is flatly denying the accusation without adding much info. Basically the corp version of “nah fam I dinnae do it”.

Whatever really happened, the end result of the event was that the uninvited contractors walked away of a private citizen’s house with his property in their bags.
Yeah I think that, unless more info comes out, I’m going to believe the accuser for the time being.

To be blunt, I find it a bit frightening/disappointing/alarming that there are human beings that choose to act as you are doing right now: to pre-judge, based on previous preconceptions rather than the facts at hand.

But...

I do understand your concern re: a private citizen's property leaving their premises after coercion from another private citizen.