WotC puts a stop to online sales of PDFs

[Brown Jenkin]

You don't lose copyright, but if you don't prosecute known violations, it might make your case weaker if you sue another party later. They can argue you knew about it but didn't sue. This is why they enter lawsuits against the foreign citizens as well as the domestic.

There is a statute of limitations on bringing a civil case for copyright infringement, so if you wait to long you will get nothing. Within that statute of limitations though your copyright rights are impervious. You can passively allow someone to make and distribute 1 million copies of your work for free and decide the next day that they must stop. Unless they have written (or maybe oral) permission you can still sue for damages. There can be no dilution of copyright no matter what.

The whole PR mess is the pulling of existing PDFs. If this was just about the lawsuits I doubt it would make as much of a stink. Although I'm going to wait and see what happens before I judge.

I will agree on this part. It is the pulling of the PDFs that is the problem. WotC made things worse by tying piracy to that decision. Just the PDFs would have riled feathers. Just the Lawsuits would have been quickly forgotten. Doing what they did though makes them look like complete fools.

 

[Ourph]

After reading tons of pages here, at RPGNet, slashdot and some other forums all I can think is that this decision will hurt Wotc sales more than help.

I had a thought this morning about this very thing. What if that's not true? What if (and this is pure unsubstantiated conjecture, I know), but what if against all logic and reason WotC actually sees a spike in sales after these PR fiascos just because of the extra publicity they generate?

It seems to me that, over the course of its lifespan, WotC has had experience with a not-insubstantial number of cases where they've horked off their fans (either D&D, Magic, DDM, etc.). If such instances really hurt sales, any halfway smart business organization would clean up their act. If anything, WotC seems to be getting worse and worse at PR. It seems like we've got a new nerd-rage inspiring move coming out of WotC every few months for the last year or so.

So what if these PR gaffs are intentional? What if it's true that any publicity is good publicity and (again, despite all common sense and logic), royally POing a bunch of D&D fans on the internet actually pushes the sales figures of D&D books a few percentage points higher for a couple of weeks?

I'm not a betting man, but if I were I might put money on WotC doing something else to generate a firestorm of nerdrage before the end of the summer (for example, making a sudden and unannounced revision to the GSL that's not very advantageous to 3PPs), maybe right around the time the next major 4e core book comes out.

 

[Treebore]

I had a thought this morning about this very thing. What if that's not true? What if (and this is pure unsubstantiated conjecture, I know), but what if against all logic and reason WotC actually sees a spike in sales after these PR fiascos just because of the extra publicity they generate?

It seems to me that, over the course of its lifespan, WotC has had experience with a not-insubstantial number of cases where they've horked off their fans (either D&D, Magic, DDM, etc.). If such instances really hurt sales, any halfway smart business organization would clean up their act. If anything, WotC seems to be getting worse and worse at PR. It seems like we've got a new nerd-rage inspiring move coming out of WotC every few months for the last year or so.

So what if these PR gaffs are intentional? What if it's true that any publicity is good publicity and (again, despite all common sense and logic), royally POing a bunch of D&D fans on the internet actually pushes the sales figures of D&D books a few percentage points higher for a couple of weeks?

I'm not a betting man, but if I were I might put money on WotC doing something else to generate a firestorm of nerdrage before the end of the summer (for example, making a sudden and unannounced revision to the GSL that's not very advantageous to 3PPs), maybe right around the time the next major 4e core book comes out.

Well, crazier things have certainly been found to be true. So your scenario is definitely within the realm of possibility. I would think, hope, and pray that it is wrong, but it could be true. Not because I want WOTC to fail, I don't. A healthy WOTC is a healthy RPG hobby. I just don't want your scenario to be true because I like believing that a company needs to be concerned with keeping their customers happy, and not having it financially beneficial to them to tick us off.

 

[catsclaw227]

I dunno. Maybe this is all a tragically ineffectual response to online piracy... but I can't help but think that perhaps WOTC has realized that a lot of people consider 4E inferior to the legacy products. And they're tired of competing with those golden games... so out they go.

The problem with this thinking is that no matter what WOTC does now, they lose.

If they continue to no longer sell the legacy PDFs, the people espousing this attitude will cry out how right they were. See? I knew it was because people like older D&D products more than 4e and this just proves it!

If they decide to put them back up for sale, the people espousing this attitude will cry out how right they were. See? They put them back up because people like older D&D products more than 4e and this just proves it!

I am guessing they are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

This seems to be the natural consequence of "firing" the existing playerbase-- older adults with expendable income-- and replacing those customers with a ruleset designed to appeal to younger players, who do not have disposable income, who are technologically savvy, and who have been cultivated in an online culture that shows no particular regard for electronic copyrights.

Please, can we not dredge up the old "I got fired by WOTC!!!111!" argument? That is a twice dead horse that needs to stay in it's grave.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Please, can we not dredge up the old "I got fired by WOTC!!!111!" argument? That is a twice dead horse that needs to stay in it's grave.

Please, can we not dredge up the old, "'I got fired by WotC' is a dead horse" argument?

You have some counter-argument you'd like to present, I'm all ears.

But if it starts with the premise that 4e was not, in fact, designed to infuse new, younger players into the aging customer base, you have a serious uphill climb.

 

[Caliber]

Please, can we not dredge up the old, "'I got fired by WotC' is a dead horse" argument?

You have some counter-argument you'd like to present, I'm all ears.

But if it starts with the premise that 4e was not, in fact, designed to infuse new, younger players into the aging customer base, you have a serious uphill climb.

I don't think the claim that "WOTC fired me as a customer" equates to "4E was meant to bring in new players". Agree with that or not, I thought we were trying to avoid edition warring here?

 

[fanboy2000]

But if it starts with the premise that 4e was not, in fact, designed to infuse new, younger players into the aging customer base, you have a serious uphill climb.

I don't what the design goals for 4e were beyond make NPC and monster design easier, but I know at least one long time player (since Chainmail) loves 4e. I would imagine anyone who has played long is used to major rules changes.

My own group is made-up of long-time and first time players and we all love 4e.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I just want to have fun.

The game is fun. All editions. Neat stuff. Great core material. Great supplements.

Don't shelve the game. Don't take the game away. Don't erase it, lock it away in a vault.

Don't cause Ryan's prediction to come true. Where is the fun in that? (or the money?)

Edena_of_Neith

 

[Scribble]

Well, copyright infringement involves its own statutes, and I'm not familiar with them. (My only IP experience at all comes from a series of seminars in law school.) But I'd be seriously shocked if, in order to prevent (via the justice system) the unlawful acts of others, you had to cease your own completely lawful acts.

It simply makes zero sense, and (contrary to popular opinion) the underlying rationale of common law and statutes usually makes sense.

Jeff-

I think you're missing a key piece of information- WoTC_Trevor said they are looking into how to offer digital content going forward.

Sure, always possible that he's misinformed, but as it stands if that's the case (and I have no reason not to accept what he says as truth) then they aren't completely ceasing a lawful act. They're temporarily halting until they can figure out HOW to sure up their defenses.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I don't think the claim that "WOTC fired me as a customer" equates to "4E was meant to bring in new players". Agree with that or not, I thought we were trying to avoid edition warring here?

Umm... Where exactly is the perceived edition war?

Especially since I am on record dozens of times supporting the decision-- the necessity-- to bring new players into the game?

Commentary about one edition or another is not de facto an edition war.