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WotC Survey Result: Classes OK, Eberron Needs Work

WotC has posted the latest D&D survey results. The survey covered the character classes not included in the previous survey - the barbarian, bard, monk, paladin, sorcerer, and warlock - and the recent Eberron material. Overall, it reports general satisfaction, with concerns in specific areas. The big ticket issues were sorcerer options, monk Way of the Four Elements opton, and more sweeping issues with the Eberron stuff, icluding the warforged and artificer. Mike Mearls says, but doesn't announce, that "I expect that you’ll see some revisions to the Eberron material before the end of the year."

WotC has posted the latest D&D survey results. The survey covered the character classes not included in the previous survey - the barbarian, bard, monk, paladin, sorcerer, and warlock - and the recent Eberron material. Overall, it reports general satisfaction, with concerns in specific areas. The big ticket issues were sorcerer options, monk Way of the Four Elements opton, and more sweeping issues with the Eberron stuff, icluding the warforged and artificer. Mike Mearls says, but doesn't announce, that "I expect that you’ll see some revisions to the Eberron material before the end of the year."

The survey report is as follows:

Overall, the barbarian, bard, monk, paladin, sorcerer, and warlock all graded very well. The areas of concern were limited to specific areas of the classes.

For instance, we’ve heard consistent feedback that the sorcerer doesn’t offer enough options within the class. Not everyone is excited about the wild mage, thus leaving some players with only the dragon sorcerer as an option. It’s no coincidence that we showed off a favored soul option for the sorcerer in Unearthed Arcana. Plus, we have another sorcerer option on tap for that article series.

We also saw some dissatisfaction with the monk’s Way of the Four Elements option. Feedback indicates that this path focuses too much on adding more ways to spend ki points, rather than giving new options or maneuvers that a monk can use without tapping into that resource. We’re doing some monk design right now that used the Way of the Four Elements as an option, so we’ve shifted that future work in response to that feedback.

Like with the first wave of class feedback, things remain very positive. The issues we’ve seen look like they can be resolved by trending toward what people liked in our future design. Nothing stood out as needing serious changes.

The Eberron material, as you can expect for stuff that is in draft form, needs some more refinement. The changeling will likely have its ability scores and Shapechanger ability tweaked. The shifter scored well, so expect a few shifts there (pardon the pun) but nothing too dramatic.

The warforged had the most interesting feedback. I think we’re going to take a look at presenting a slightly different approach, one that ties back into the original race’s armored body options to make them feel more like innately equipped characters.

The artificer still needs a good amount of work, so that one will go back to the drawing board. I think the class needs a more unique, evocative feature that does a better job of capturing a character who crafts and uses custom items. We played it too conservatively in our initial design.

I expect that you’ll see some revisions to the Eberron material before the end of the year. Unearthed Arcana is proving a useful resource in giving new game content every month while giving us the chance to test drive mechanics.

Thank you all for taking part in these surveys and making our job of producing great RPG content much easier. I’m looking forward to seeing how our work evolves and hope you enjoy the option of weighing in on our work.
 

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Rules only found online simply doesn't carry as much weight, and will never become truly official in the eyes of many.

I'd say that's a problem for the "many" to deal with, not a failing of the online rules. Sure, I'd rather have anything as major as new classes/sub-classes/etc in a hardcopy book. But if they're only available online? So be it. If they're given as official options, I'll treat them as such.
 

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The non-mystical martial artist is already in the game, that's the Fighter. Chi-magic is the design space, wouldn't want it any other way.

I think there's absolutely room and good cause for a brawler/unarmed combatant subclass for the fighter. But as far as the monk itself? I agree that the mystical aspects are pretty well baked in.
 

I'm super anti-new classes. More classes are generally bad. But... an artificer does fill enough wide unsupported niches that it might be worth doing.

I'm absolutely welcoming of new classes--but only if there is truly no other way to accurately capture them. Only if every effort has been made to represent it with a combination of feats and/or new subclasses would I want to see any given concept introduced as a brand new class.

But if/when that point is reached? Then I have no problem with it. :)
 

pemerton

Legend
I do wish they would have a variant monk, or rather a martial artist, that focused on purely on the combat elements of martial arts. The monk seems to have been built on the Shaolin Monk template where the monk reaches illumination as he rises in level that allows him to interact with the with the entire world as well as possessing amazing martial skills.

I'd prefer a martial artist like those you see in something like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon or any of the old kung fu flicks
I think self-realisation and enlightenment are pretty core to the Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon martial artists! That's what the whole movie is about.
 

Klaus

First Post
I think there's absolutely room and good cause for a brawler/unarmed combatant subclass for the fighter. But as far as the monk itself? I agree that the mystical aspects are pretty well baked in.

... and that is pretty much just a tweak away, perhaps replacing weapons and armor proficiencies for Martial Arts and Unarmored Defense.
 

... and that is pretty much just a tweak away, perhaps replacing weapons and armor proficiencies for Martial Arts and Unarmored Defense.

Yeah, and to get a more 4th Ed like Avenger-Paladin, you could grant Unarmoured Defence (10 + Dex mod + Cha mod) in pace of armour proficiency.

I have converted quite few 3rd Ed classes to 5th Ed:

Binder
Crusader
Dragon Shaman
Duskblade
Factotum
Favoured Soul
Hexblade
Incarnate
Jester
Marshal
Soulborn
Spirit Shaman
Swordsage
Truenamer
Warblade
 

Mercule

Adventurer
Except that these new options need your anti-sloppiness treatment too. That is, they need to be committed to paper.

Rules only found online simply doesn't carry as much weight, and will never become truly official in the eyes of many.
Even if committed to paper, things like the 3.5 Polymorph "errata" wouldn't ever become "official", to me. That sort of thing goes well beyond what the word "errata" means. The way it was used during 3.5 was an abuse the English language.

Actual errata (i.e. fixing things that were actually misprinted or unclear) should work with an online print-off. Anything that qualifies as an actual rules change/addition should be found in a formal publication, preferably physical. This is where I can see a PHB 2, or something similar coming in; after a couple years of Dragon, Unearthed Arcana, etc., gather together the "good" rules and put them into a book of official races, sub-classes, etc.
 

Celtavian

Dragon Lord
I think self-realisation and enlightenment are pretty core to the Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon martial artists! That's what the whole movie is about.

Not through combat. They couldn't for example use ki to understand another person's language and they didn't stop aging. That is more aspects of Shaolin.

The fighting in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was swordsmanship and martial arts represented by empowered physical abilities. The fighters in the movie were not monks. I would like to see different types of martial artists represented.
 

Celtavian

Dragon Lord
That would ignore the other pillars of play, even the Champion Fighter gets non-combat related bonuses.

Not even related to what I'm referring to. Handing out the ability to speak with all people and travel on the astral plane at high level has nothing to do with non-combat capabilities throughout a monk's career. Most monks will never reach the level to do either. Not aging is a purely martial arts movie trope with the old man that can fight as well old as he did young, if not better.

I'm talking about martial artists that are pure fighters absent the mysticism of joining with "the force."
 

Celtavian

Dragon Lord
I'm very much against errata being more than corrections of typos and word errors. Relying on updates after the fact for balance is a huge mistake, which devalues the books and forgives sloppiness. The designers should go into the design process of new options assuming they will never be updated and have to be as close to perfect as possible upon release.
Errata released online is tricky. You really don't want the situation of someone showing up to a table with a character they can't play or that is lacking options. And we really don't need two versions of the beastmaster or moon druid floating around. Not everyone looks online for errata or updates.

Some classes do need some more options, like the barbarian, bard and most definitely the sorcerer. Having two subclasses is always tricky but when one is as funky as wild magic the sorcerer feels a little restrictive. And that's an easy solution as all that is required is more content on the website (or Dragon+).

Pathfinder hasn't had much trouble releasing errata online. It definitely helps the game when it does remove, clarify, or change problem rules that cause DM's headaches.
 

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