WotC Survey Result: Classes OK, Eberron Needs Work

WotC has posted the latest D&D survey results. The survey covered the character classes not included in the previous survey - the barbarian, bard, monk, paladin, sorcerer, and warlock - and the recent Eberron material. Overall, it reports general satisfaction, with concerns in specific areas. The big ticket issues were sorcerer options, monk Way of the Four Elements opton, and more sweeping issues with the Eberron stuff, icluding the warforged and artificer. Mike Mearls says, but doesn't announce, that "I expect that you’ll see some revisions to the Eberron material before the end of the year."

The survey report is as follows:

Overall, the barbarian, bard, monk, paladin, sorcerer, and warlock all graded very well. The areas of concern were limited to specific areas of the classes.

For instance, we’ve heard consistent feedback that the sorcerer doesn’t offer enough options within the class. Not everyone is excited about the wild mage, thus leaving some players with only the dragon sorcerer as an option. It’s no coincidence that we showed off a favored soul option for the sorcerer in Unearthed Arcana. Plus, we have another sorcerer option on tap for that article series.

We also saw some dissatisfaction with the monk’s Way of the Four Elements option. Feedback indicates that this path focuses too much on adding more ways to spend ki points, rather than giving new options or maneuvers that a monk can use without tapping into that resource. We’re doing some monk design right now that used the Way of the Four Elements as an option, so we’ve shifted that future work in response to that feedback.

Like with the first wave of class feedback, things remain very positive. The issues we’ve seen look like they can be resolved by trending toward what people liked in our future design. Nothing stood out as needing serious changes.

The Eberron material, as you can expect for stuff that is in draft form, needs some more refinement. The changeling will likely have its ability scores and Shapechanger ability tweaked. The shifter scored well, so expect a few shifts there (pardon the pun) but nothing too dramatic.

The warforged had the most interesting feedback. I think we’re going to take a look at presenting a slightly different approach, one that ties back into the original race’s armored body options to make them feel more like innately equipped characters.

The artificer still needs a good amount of work, so that one will go back to the drawing board. I think the class needs a more unique, evocative feature that does a better job of capturing a character who crafts and uses custom items. We played it too conservatively in our initial design.

I expect that you’ll see some revisions to the Eberron material before the end of the year. Unearthed Arcana is proving a useful resource in giving new game content every month while giving us the chance to test drive mechanics.

Thank you all for taking part in these surveys and making our job of producing great RPG content much easier. I’m looking forward to seeing how our work evolves and hope you enjoy the option of weighing in on our work.

 

[Ahrimon]

As far as the eratta issue goes my biggest contention is that tweets =/= official. Once the push a pdf/web article/book from WotC then I'll take a look at it. Until then the tweets are just suggestions from a couple of guys with more experience with the game than me. They're something to be considered but free to ignore.

As far as the mystic monk, I've been thinking about a good way to remove the unarmed part and keeping everything else. I think allowing martial arts and flurry of blows with finesse weapon so is the logical choice but I'm worried it might be too powerful at lower levels. And what do I actually replace the u armed strike ability with?


Edit: darn phone autocorrect...

 

[Klaus]

Well, part of the issue is that "casting spells" is the same as "infusing items." So it's not sure that we're NOT looking for someone who essentially casts spells. So lets maybe run this experiment: if there was to be an item crafting class that could not use any spells or magical effects, what would it look like? If we were to get a purely martial item crafter who did not need or use any magical abilities, who simply relied on their mastery of crafts, what might it look like? After all, this class should probably embrace archetypes like the lone forge-master on the mountain who creates blades of exotic metals but has no truck with the world of the unseen that he cannot touch...without relying on existing magic items or existing spells, what would such a class look like?

At the very least, that's fertile ground for exploration.

Something like a class that has spell points, and allots them to specific spells at the beginning of the day. Something like choosing 6 spell points to Magic Missile (creating a wand that can cast MM 6 times during that day), 4 spell points to Invisibility (creating a single-use potion of invisibility) and 4 spell points to Enhance Ability [Strength] (creating a one-use Belt of Giant Strength).

 

[Celtavian]

I'm not sure what you mean by "not through combat", but the character in that movie can virtually fly and balance on leaves; and Chow Yun Fat, at the moment of his death, knows a mystical technique for achieving immortality in heaven. I think they're absolutely monks in the D&D tradition.

Immortality in Heaven? What does that even mean? That means about as much in D&D as "I breathed air."

No. They are not monks in the D&D tradition. I don't know why you make that claim. There is much they did that you cannot do with a monk and vice versa.

I want to be able to do that with my monk. I don't want to hear "you could do elemental style and take fly." That still wouldn't be like the fighters in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. I want dedicated swordsman, Toad Style fighters with Iron Skin, Monkey Style fighters, Snake Style Fighters, and the like. More martial arts tropes covered with a generic martial artist without the unnecessary additions like Tongue of the Sun and Moon. The fighters in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon weren't even immune to poison. They were mainly fighters that had learned to leap around and tread on leaves.

 

[SkidAce]

[MENTION=5834]Celtavian[/MENTION] this help any?

Martial Arts and Styles

 

[I'm A Banana]

Something like a class that has spell points, and allots them to specific spells at the beginning of the day. Something like choosing 6 spell points to Magic Missile (creating a wand that can cast MM 6 times during that day), 4 spell points to Invisibility (creating a single-use potion of invisibility) and 4 spell points to Enhance Ability [Strength] (creating a one-use Belt of Giant Strength).

That still relies on spells...and sounds a lot like the old-school Vancian "prepare your slots in the morning" casting that was abandoned (and not exactly missed by many) in the 5e Wizard, no?

 

[Leatherhead]

That still relies on spells...and sounds a lot like the old-school Vancian "prepare your slots in the morning" casting that was abandoned (and not exactly missed by many) in the 5e Wizard, no?

Even the Monks and Barbarians use spells. Just so that they don't have to make dozens of alternate rules, I would assume. But, yes, they are going to "cast spells", because every class in 5e casts spells.

The important bit is that Artificer casting is kinda weird. They seemingly have a mechanic because everyone else has that mechanic.

In 3e: All Artificers automatically know all infusions available to them, much like how Clerics know all spells of a given level, but the Artificer can choose which infusion to use without preparation, like the Sorcerer. Which makes it more like power points sporting a vancian coat of paint. Because everyone who did 3e could easily grok spell slots per day, and some people had an outright aversion to blatant points usage. It's quite sneaky and clever really.

In 4e: They use the same power backbone that most of the classes other than psions and essentials use, obviously.


The 3e mechanic is very close to the default arcane casting mechanic for 5e (which Wizards don't actually use), with a tweak allowing them to know all the infusions automatically. The 4e mechanic is, well also the default mechanic.

So our options are the default spellcasting mechanic, a tweaked mechanic that would seem overpowered without an extremely limited spell list (in scope and/or level), or something different that could invoke the flavor of having a magical battery to power up things, like spell points.

 

[Klaus]

That still relies on spells...and sounds a lot like the old-school Vancian "prepare your slots in the morning" casting that was abandoned (and not exactly missed by many) in the 5e Wizard, no?

On the surface, yeah. But there would be more to the Artificer that I don't actually have time to write up now.

Mind you, this is all in the interest of mimicking the *3e*, original Artificer, who had a golf bag of consumable items (wands, rods, potions, oils) upon which to base his spellcasting, with only some basic spells of his own, focused on buffing and item conjuring/repairing.

 

[Remathilis]

That seems pretty much like "I'm a warlock with re-fluffed spells" to me (heck, a tome warlock could get a lot of the rituals!). I wouldn't propose that the warlock get a new subclass (the stories are very distinct), but I would propose that maybe wizards get a way to trade out some of their features for some always-on abilities or somesuch.

I want more than re-fluffed spellcasting for a class to be interesting and distinct and worth playing. If re-fluffed spellcasting was enough for me, I would've been happy with 4e.

Hell, by that logic, a BARD should be a refluffed wizard since its song magic is just "spells". I could see it as a wizard subclass; focus on enchantment/divination with a few bonus abilities (jack of all trades, song of healing, counter song) and proficiencies tacked on via subclass. Just like your artificer, no?

Much like how the bard " borrows" spellcasting from the wizard, I'm borrowing the short-rest + permanent effects of the warlock. I'm not using the actual abilities, the pacts, etc. A warlock and an artificer would play very different despite sharing the same system, much like how a wizard, sorcerer, cleric, druid, and bard all play differently.

Why the artificer must be held to this impossible standard of reinventing the wheel while all other classes can use spells is beyond me. Most people want something that emulates the 3e artificer with maybe a nod to the 4e one; something a wizard with potions doesn't do.

 

[Celtavian]

[MENTION=5834]Celtavian[/MENTION] this help any?

Martial Arts and Styles

Definitely more what I'm looking for. I'd love to see the type of martial styles Pathfinder created.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

Definitely more what I'm looking for. I'd love to see the type of martial styles Pathfinder created.

Yeah, and check out the 3rd Ed Tome of Battle, very easily converted to 5th Ed.