Would a typical D&D town allow adventurers to walk around?

GSHamster

Adventurer
From an inword, sociological point of view the key to stability is integrating powerful people into the social system. This is a mixture of structrual features (eg making the powerful people officials or rulers) and value features (ie morally/ethically integrating the powerful into enduring social institutions - making them officals/rulers can be a way of doing this too!).

I was thinking about this, and it occurs to me that the strongest tool real-world societies had for this doesn't work in D&D. That tool, of course, is marriage.

Marrying into the social structure and having children be part of that structure is a very strong incentive in the real world. As well, marriage adds you into the kinship networks. A spouse is also a restraining factor on behavior, especially one who wishes to maintain social standing.

But attempting to co-opt adventurers into the social structure through marriage doesn't seem to work as well from a playable perspective.
 

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MarkB

Legend
For what it's worth, Eberron has ID documents and travel papers baked into the setting, and provides sufficient mundane and magical backup to their enforcement to make forgery both difficult and profitable.

Identification%20Papers%20by%20Lee%20Moyer.jpg


Ultimately, a society which doesn't allow overt adventurers to operate openly within it will breed two things: Covert adventurers, and outlaw adventurers. Neither of those are likely to be healthy for any society.
 

My personal experience is that a lot of people have a relatively limited understanding even of their own society and social system! So what we get is some sort of bowdlerised mixture of the present and the (historical) past.

Fair point!

Ultimately, a society which doesn't allow overt adventurers to operate openly within it will breed two things: Covert adventurers, and outlaw adventurers. Neither of those are likely to be healthy for any society.

A society, sure. But then we run into the issue of how socially integrated the game world is. An English ship's captain in the age of exploration may have a writ from Queen Elizabeth, but how much goodwill does that buy him when he's forced onto the shores of Madagascar? Or in D&D terms:

"Outlander, you say this seal from Queen Madouc gives you authority to carry and purchase arms. But the writ of that wanton born of fiends carries no weight in the Free City of Karsh. And we regard any armed party approaching the city through the Wastes of Vaa-Kaa-Kaa as hostile cutthroats, and likely cannibals.
 

pemerton

Legend
Marrying into the social structure and having children be part of that structure is a very strong incentive in the real world. As well, marriage adds you into the kinship networks. A spouse is also a restraining factor on behavior, especially one who wishes to maintain social standing.

But attempting to co-opt adventurers into the social structure through marriage doesn't seem to work as well from a playable perspective.
Good post.

I think this is one of those areas where imaginary, ingame reasons and real-world reasons for game participants just don't fit together. Of all the features of the ingame social situation to get players invested in, family can be one of the hardest. Even when players engage in romance with their PCs, at least in my experience it will more often be modern-style individual romance rather than romance with an eye to its social consequences.

In one of my campaigns two PCs were cousins. The senior cousin was trying to consolidate his hold over a town that he had "liberated" on behalf of his lord, and over which he had therefore been made ruler. He tried to marry the younger cousin off to a powerful local widow. The younger cousin, however - in this case very much played by the player with an eye to what he wanted rather than focusing on the ingame situation - refused. The PC - again under very self-conscious direction from the player - went on to initiate his own romance with an unattached, socially irrelevant NPC.
 

MarkB

Legend
In one of my campaigns two PCs were cousins. The senior cousin was trying to consolidate his hold over a town that he had "liberated" on behalf of his lord, and over which he had therefore been made ruler. He tried to marry the younger cousin off to a powerful local widow. The younger cousin, however - in this case very much played by the player with an eye to what he wanted rather than focusing on the ingame situation - refused. The PC - again under very self-conscious direction from the player - went on to initiate his own romance with an unattached, socially irrelevant NPC.

Sounds pretty much like any period romance novel.
 


Lalato

Adventurer
In a campaign I played in, the local Duke offered the PCs some land and titles in order to pay them... and more importantly to keep them around in time of need. It worked well and became an important part of the campaign at higher levels when the PCs were essentially commanders in the army trying to repel an invading force.

I love all of the campaign specific details people have brought up... as well as some of the historical artifacts that have been dug up. Keep 'em coming. :)
 

Janx

Hero
How would you stop them?

If you can't stop them from causing a disturbance in town, you can't stop them from simply walking around. In fact, by trying to stop them entering, you might trigger the very disturbance you are seeking to avoid.

I think the best strategy for dealing with adventures is to first treat them as though they are normal, and hope that they follow the regular norms of behavior. If they don't behave, the best policy is probably appeasement, and give them whatever they want until they go away or you can summon someone powerful enough to deal with them (the local lord, etc.).

I'm late to the party, but I think this early post is noteworthy.

If as a GM, you hadn't put any thought into weapons vs. society (the opposite of Celebrim's well thought out world), then this is the very simple logical response.

On first contact of the PCs with the town, the GM should look at the situation from the town NPC's perspective.

And the chain of logic is the path of least resistance. Unless the GM wants to cause problems for the PCs with the town, the simplest solution is as GSHamster defines.

Now if the GM wants to get fancy and spend more serious thought on weapons vs. society, Celebrim and RuinExplorer's early posts show logical chains that would be plausible for the introduction of restrictions.

But if you just start making the town NPCs try to bar the party entry or jack with them, then expect to get the MurderHobo response. It's stupid NPC behavior if you don't spend the effort to think it out and define the nuances of weapons laws BEFORE the party collides with it.
 

Jumping in late here as well.. my initial forays into this question started back in 1e days with the 'settlement gp limit' table, and the realization that a +1 sword cost as much as a war Galleon.


Doomed Slayers by Jurgen Hubert is the best method I have seen. The crux of the society is that most people are normal and lots of bad things are outside. So a new social class is born, the professional adventurer, in which life expectancy is very short. So short in fact that inductees to this class tend to have funerals for themselves before leaving home. And some even hold wakes each night just in case.

The rest of society follows the 'norms' of the world. Paying taxes, not able to carry weapons, etc. The adventurer, however, can get away with pretty much anything they want and the local authority is always glad to hold a feast on the day they arrive... and quickly identify the location of a dangerous threat to the town that the party can go 'loot'.

"Tis better to leave by dawn I think!, just let my butler know what you need and he will get it for you if we have it!"

Woe to the town leader who doesn't have a 'dangerous monster den' up his sleeve when adventurers come to town. They might just decide to hang out and wait for something to happen!

For me this solves the population gp limits and likelyhood of a barter-market and gives the adventurers reasons to keep moving on.

It also means that if you want to keep a low profile....it better be a really low profile!
 

APGM

Banned
Banned
I say this with all the love and understanding I have, but you guys are all idiots. If you wouldn't ascribe historical accuracy to The Silverlinings Playbook, High Noon, Gladiator or Gone With the Wind why the hell would you base any of your assumptions upon what is depicted in any other cinema? Akira Kurosawa, whose vision is almost singularly responsible for the Samurai film aesthetic, was largely inspired and entranced by American westerns and considered himself honored when his depiction of the 47 Ronin was re-imagined for western viewers as the Magnificent Seven. That sort of nepotism and inbreeding is rampant in film, movies are never influenced so greatly as they are by other movies.

Historically speaking, whether you are talking about Huns, Vikings, Visigoths, Mongols or Bedouins, there have always been cultures which thrived upon predation and exploiting the assumptions of security amongst their more industrious neighbors. This is also true even if you are speaking of mercenaries, displaced soldiers, brigands, revolutionaries or any other artificially created threats bent on economic opportunism which naturally follow the cessation of long standing hostilities in martial or feudally centered societies whether one is talking of the Punic Wars, the Crusades or the American Civil War. The former is usually met with the ire of whatever power is interested in the sovereignty of its domain and the latter usually handled locally by those the most threatened by it, however, there have been ample cases of exceptions to both of those general observations over time.

Economically speaking, progress requires stability and peace. In cultures where there is no rule of law by which to establish a reasonable expectation of personal and profit protection, such as in the Middle East where for centuries neither property nor enterprise were recognized and were subject to arbitrary seizure from magisterial authority without justification or due process, technological and social advancement came slow even in spite of being in an advantageous geographical location situated between two rapidly and differentially progressing hemispheres and gave rise to traditionalism and nomadic inclination. This is also why the European Dark Ages after the Fall of Rome saw significantly fewer, although that is in in no way to suggest lesser, innovations than the period of unparalleled stability preceding it.

Fear gives way to anger even as oppression invariably leads to revolt. The Chinese have been historically unique in being resistant to such cycles, having chosen to simply outlast any would be conquerors and show stoic indifference to what would otherwise be perceived as existential threats, but even they have employed means such as burgeoning bureaucracy and passive intransigence to undermine contested rulership. Their history is one I find fascinating in being utterly alien to everywhere else on earth and in recorded history. Alexis de Tocqueville observed in his American travels that Ohio and Kentucky showed great disparity in wealth and infrastructure, though there was no difference in the land, seasons, or cultural values and composition of its people. After intent observation and reflection he came to sobering conclusion that the only element of significance which separated the two states were their economic foundations, one relied upon slavery the other free association and this been shown to be historically true. China has been an exception to this simply because they refused to be see themselves as slaves regardless of the tyranny and injustice inflicted upon them, though even their progress was staggered by constant aggression and a lack of internal consistency.

In closing, you guys aren't looking for realism. There are ample annals of reality recorded for your contemplation and perusal if that were your inclination. What you searching for is an fantasy reinforcement of your ideological aesthetics. There are common assumption rampant in most of these arguments embracing things like central authority, which is a relative latecomer if not in concept at least in implementation, unquestioningly embracing caste and aristocratic elements without understanding their role and necessity (the Romans had a saying, a Caesar can be made somewhere other than Rome and one need look no further than the example of Septimius Serverus for an example of that that means), the regulation of arms and a lack of individual autonomy, accomplishment and responsibility. People were capable of their own survival before governments, and when governments fail people find a way to carry on. You do humanity a disservice to treat the common folk of your campaigns as hapless and perpetual victims.
 

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