D&D (2024) Would you be fine with classes that you can't always play but are better than base classes?

[DarkCrisis]

Back in the long long ago, Paladins and Rangers where just better. They were Fighters+.

But you couldn't just pick it. You had to roll stats high enough. And even if your DM let you insert your rolls into any stat still didn't mean you had high enough stats to be a Ranger or Paly. They were special and you wanted one in the party if possible. It was always a pleasant surprise when one got to be in the party. Now-a-days it's just ho hum another Ranger.

Of course, with the standard being Point Buy or whatever now there would have to be an alternate method. Like roll a 6 on a D6 if you want to make a Paladin or Ranger. This is assuming they are Better Class Plus. Could be whole new classes that are a take on the regular balanced class. Not a Sorcerer but a... Witch King! Or whatever.

Do classes need to be balanced anyways? Most people seem to get a character idea and not really worried if they will be A+ tier in combat.

 

[payn]

Back in the long long ago, Paladins and Rangers where just better. They were Fighters+.

But you couldn't just pick it. You had to roll stats high enough. And even if your DM let you insert your rolls into any stat still didn't mean you had high enough stats to be a Ranger or Paly. They were special and you wanted one in the party if possible. It was always a pleasant surprise when one got to be in the party. Now-a-days it's just ho hum another Ranger.

Of course, with the standard being Point Buy or whatever now there would have to be an alternate method. Like roll a 6 on a D6 if you want to make a Paladin or Ranger. This is assuming they are Better Class Plus. Could be whole new classes that are a take on the regular balanced class. Not a Sorcerer but a... Witch King! Or whatever.

Do classes need to be balanced anyways? Most people seem to get a character idea and not really worried if they will be A+ tier in combat.

No thanks. There is good reason why modern design has moved away from this.

 

[Blue]

"Do classes need to be balanced anyways?"

No, classes don't need to be balanced always.

A system that does need to balance classes is when combat-to-the-death is a common stake for overcoming challenges. Character death is a lot less player-fun than other types of consequences of loss. Because the combat has a level of challenge, some character being much more powerful or much weaker than the average will end up with either boredom or being unable to contribute. When this takes significant real time, it's an issue.

So D&D and many games of it's ilk do fall into the category of games that need to have at least rough balance between the characters.

 

[Corinnguard]

Do classes need to be balanced anyways?

I don't think it's possible to balance out the classes. There are too many variables (Race, Class, Background, etc.) in the D&D character creation process to make it possible.

 

[mellored]

No.

If you want to make someone more powerful than the rest of the party. You can just give them another magic item.

Especially since a lot of those classes benefited those who already had good luck.
I.e. you got luck and rolled high stats, so you get to win even more.

Though... a special class where you stats had to be lower than 13 might be fun.

 

[tetrasodium]

Back in the long long ago, Paladins and Rangers where just better. They were Fighters+.

But you couldn't just pick it. You had to roll stats high enough. And even if your DM let you insert your rolls into any stat still didn't mean you had high enough stats to be a Ranger or Paly. They were special and you wanted one in the party if possible. It was always a pleasant surprise when one got to be in the party. Now-a-days it's just ho hum another Ranger.

Of course, with the standard being Point Buy or whatever now there would have to be an alternate method. Like roll a 6 on a D6 if you want to make a Paladin or Ranger. This is assuming they are Better Class Plus. Could be whole new classes that are a take on the regular balanced class. Not a Sorcerer but a... Witch King! Or whatever.

Do classes need to be balanced anyways? Most people seem to get a character idea and not really worried if they will be A+ tier in combat.

Those classes were:

• difficult to qualify for
• Often faced hurdles beyond needing enough exp in order to level
• Faced sometimes difficult restrictions on how they could act and things they could do.

If the current wotc tried to going back to that it would be like any 3 stats at 13 to qualify with no hurdles for advancement and no restrictions on what they could do.

 

[Horwath]

So in addition to having a more powerful class, you need extra good ability scores, yeah, I see no balance problem in the game with this.

Now, if you want to give players something extra, then as @mellored said, give out special magic items that give user some features.

 

[Sir Brennen]

So in addition to having a more powerful class, you need extra good ability scores, yeah, I see no balance problem in the game with this.

Assuming this should have /sarcasm tag?

 

[aco175]

I seem to recall a lot of people 'rolling at home' and getting the 17 CHA needed to be a paladin. Not that they did not roll 500 times before they get what they wanted or just created what they wanted to play, but it happened. I tend to think that the same would happen if some classes were cooler, but needed something like that.

I also think that the classes need to be at least sorta balanced to play together. We could introduce feat trees to spread power across levels again, or different XP charts for the class so the wizard gets to be 5th level when the thief is about 9th level. But, I tend to find that people in a group want to be about the same as the others in order to play nicely with each other.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

So in addition to having a more powerful class, you need extra good ability scores, yeah, I see no balance problem in the game with this.

Now, if you want to give players something extra, then as @mellored said, give out special magic items that give user some features.

Rich get richer is such great game design! Lets give them extra xp while we're at it, because "rolling" well for your stats isn't reward enough!