"Wraithblade" ?

[Istar]

Exact phrasing, from the Compendium:

Property: On a critical hit, if you have the sneak attack class feature (whether granted by class or multiclass feat), you may apply your bonus sneak attack damage even if you have already done so this round or this encounter. Gaining sneak attack damage in this way does not count toward its use restriction.

I dunno. It's lousy phrasing. I don't think I'd allow it; the point seems to be add sneak attack to crits even when you don't have combat advantage on your foe, not to double up the sneak attack.

I think you have missed the point of the text.

If you have already applied Sneak Attack damage in the round, say from one attack, and you attack again using an AP or "Twin Strike" or minor action, and crit, the ability lets you do SA damage again, where usually its only once per round.

"you may apply your bonus sneak attack damage even if you have already done so this round"

Doesnt get any more clearer than that.

What it doesnt specifiy is whether you need CA or not ?
I think it implies you have CA as it talks about "If you have sneak attack feature" and we all know this feature required CA for it to work.

 

[Istar]

Clarification: I'd allow the weapon, but I wouldn't allow a rogue to double his sneak attack on the same hit. Thanks for the clarification, Ari!

With the number of crits an avenger can get, I think I'd multiclass my avenger to rogue and get a wraithblade weapon. Too much fun.

Yes I think one SA damage per attack.
I dont think they intend for you to get twice as much SA damage just becuase it crits, or they would have said as much.

 

[Istar]

Making it an encounter power should do the trick.

Is that your standard answer for everything Hong ?

 

[Jack99]

Is that your standard answer for everything Hong ?

Nah, it's usually "you think too hard about D&D".

 

[Istar]

Nah, it's usually "you think too hard about D&D".

Everyone is thinking too hard for an Australian.

We send people over there from New Zealand to raise the average IQ's of both countries

 

[hong]

we send people over there from new zealand to raise the average iq's of both countries

 

[Byronic]

With the number of crits an avenger can get, I think I'd multiclass my avenger to rogue and get a wraithblade weapon. Too much fun.

I'm just curious, but wouldn't a jagged weapon be better? Avengers seem to get twice the amount of criticals, however I don't see a way to improve their critical range to 19-20 until epic level (besides using weapons, which would be hard while using a wraith blade).

So a jagged weapon would allow them an effective 20% critical range (instead of 10%) and with a weapon with "High Crit" should do more damage then a Wraithblade (even if you were to use that Eladrin/Longsword combo)

On another note I do allow how Wraithblade allows people to make dagger builds easier to do with classes other then the Rogue. Since we have the person who made up the weapon here though, would such a weapon if used as an implement allow Sorcerers to add sneak attack on their criticals? Strictly be rules rather then intention (I doubt it if you meant it by intention, but please say if you did).

 

[Piratecat]

I think you have missed the point of the text. ...

What it doesnt specifiy is whether you need CA or not ?
I think it implies you have CA as it talks about "If you have sneak attack feature" and we all know this feature required CA for it to work.

Not everyone knows Mouseferatu; the author of the weapon actually weighed in at post #6, explaining that no, you don't need Combat Advantage. Otherwise I'd agree that you had an equally valid interpretation of how the damn thing works.

 

[CapnZapp]

Exact phrasing, from the Compendium:

Property: On a critical hit, if you have the sneak attack class feature (whether granted by class or multiclass feat), you may apply your bonus sneak attack damage even if you have already done so this round or this encounter. Gaining sneak attack damage in this way does not count toward its use restriction.

As written, this
1) allows you to apply sneak attack damage on a crit
2) even if you have already done so this round
3) even if you have already done so this encounter
4) Gaining sneak attack damage in this way does not count toward its use restriction

1) means you get to apply sneak damage on crits even if you don't have Combat Advantage
2) means you get to apply sneak damage on crits even if you have already applied your sneak damage this turn
3) I don't know what 3) means as I am not aware of any encounter-based sneak damage limitation. But at least it's harmless (doesn't need errata, because it doesn't do anything)
4) I believe what this means is "Getting to apply sneak damage this way does not count as your regular sneak damage for this turn"

And yes, as written, the text does not prevent you from applying sneak damage twice to the same (critical, flanking) hit.

Per

the point seems to be add sneak attack to crits even when you don't have combat advantage on your foe, not to double up the sneak attack.

This, exactly.

it seems that the RAI would be to keep all its powers, only adding "This power does not allow you to apply sneak attack damage more than once to any given opponent per turn".

So, if you crit everybody in a close burst, you deal sneak damage to all of them. But if you dual strike one and the same enemy, and crit both attacks, you only deal sneak damage on the second attack if you have combat advantage (you'd use the Wraithblade power for the first crit; and your regular once-a-round sneak damage for the second).

 

[ghearus]

I'm just curious, but wouldn't a jagged weapon be better? Avengers seem to get twice the amount of criticals, however I don't see a way to improve their critical range to 19-20 until epic level (besides using weapons, which would be hard while using a wraith blade).

This should do the trick! Avenger + Twin Strike + Sneak of Shadows + Daggermaster + Wraithblades ftw! 1d4+3 for a regular attack, 1d4+3+3d8 (SA) + 3d6 (crit bonus) [10-49] per attack. Also, if you crit with any Melee Avenger power, or the first Twin Strike attack, make an extra-offhand attack!

And for Epic Cheese, Punisher of the Gods!

Level 12
Half-Elf, Avenger, Daggermaster
Build: Pursuing Avenger
Avenger's Censure: Censure of Pursuit
Background: Cormyr (General)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 13, Dex 15, Int 11, Wis 19, Cha 11.

Starting Ability Scores
Str 15, Con 10, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 17, Cha 8.

AC: 25 Fort: 22 Reflex: 21 Will: 22
HP: 87 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 21

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion, Stealth, Athletics, Perception, Thievery.

FEATS
1: Sneak of Shadows
2: Improved Armor of Faith
4: Two-Weapon Fighting
6: Backstabber
8: Two-Weapon Defense
10: Weapon Expertise (Light Blade)
11: Versatile Master
12: Two-Weapon Opening

POWERS
1, At-Will: Bond of Pursuit
1, At-Will: Overwhelming Strike
1, At-Will: Twin Strike
1, Encounter: Angelic Alacrity
1, Daily: Aspect of Might
2, Utility: Refocus Enmity
3, Encounter: Deflecting Thunder
5, Daily: Executioner's Cloak
6, Utility: Aspect of Agility
7, Encounter: Blade Step
9, Daily: Enduring Strike
10, Utility: River of Life

ITEMS
Wraithblade Dagger +2 (2)

On another note I do allow how Wraithblade allows people to make dagger builds easier to do with classes other then the Rogue. Since we have the person who made up the weapon here though, would such a weapon if used as an implement allow Sorcerers to add sneak attack on their criticals? Strictly be rules rather then intention (I doubt it if you meant it by intention, but please say if you did).

Sneak Attack simply requires that you use a light blade, sling, or crossbow (or other weapons that are opened up by feats such as Street Thug); the only requirement for the Wraithblade is that you need the SA class feature.

One question though, how does the Wraithblade work with the Rogue's Hybrid Class Sneak Attack feature; if this allows circumvention of that, then things can get super cheesy!