D&D 5E Xanathar's Guide to Everything...

[Sacrosanct]

Oh Grod, yes. The switch from 1e to 2e was a full-on edition war. It only died down to a degree when 3rd edition came out and was so radically different from 2nd edition that 1e and 2e started to look more similar than different. And even then it was more of a cease-fire than an end to the fighting about the editions.

I don't think that the marketing that TSR did at the time helped things much. Actually the marketing for 4th edition reminded me a bit of the "arrogance" of the articles in Dragon magazine touting the new edition over the older one. And more than a bit of the rancor about the new edition was probably wrapped up with how TSR booted Gygax from the company and how the company was being run in general at the time. But while the mechanical differences look slight now with 30 years of distance behind us (and 3 more editions to compare them too), at the time what we would now call "tweaks" to the game engine were hotly fought over at various tables and in the Forum of Dragon magazine (when TSR allowed those letters to be published, of course). And then later on Usenet (where it often got quite ugly).

I think you may be misremembering. Gygax got canned in 1985, long before 2e came out, so I highly doubt any arguments about going to 2e were centered around that. Also, I just went through 2 years of Dragon at the time 2e came out. Do you know how many letters to the editor were critical of 2e?

2. One was from someone who was complaining how 2e was sending a message that evil PCs were being removed, and the other was complaining about a line of text that said, "Your PC knows everything you know", because apparently he is "a 15 year old with 4 years of martial arts so giving my PC my knowledge would unbalance the game."

Almost all other references to 2e were complimentary (like the monstrous manual having loose leaf sheets), or asking questions.

Additionally, if only a % of gamers hang out on forums now, almost none of them did back on Usenet from a ratio perspective. Hardly anyone had a computer period in 1989, let alone the number who had access to a computer with connectivity to other uses. I'm guessing less than 5% of people had that. So saying there was an edition war based on such a tiny sample size is flawed methodology.

I know my experience is purely anecdotal (as is everyone else's), but I have played with lots of gamers over that time period (because I was in the military and traveled a lot and constantly had new gamers come and go). So I've got a good sample size from back then. That, combined with objective data (the Dragon letters), and it doesn't seem like there was that much of a flame war at all going to 2e. It existed, but not nearly as much as in later editions. And I suspect that was for reasons already mentioned (lack of community discussion via internet, and not much of a change going to 2e because 1e was still compatible).

 

[Corpsetaker]

Is #4 in fantasy gaming on Amazon. I think that the strongest 5E preorder we have seen, at least this far out. View attachment 85304 Its #466 in overall sales. ToA perorder is doing about as well the other adventures, #12 on fantasy gaming and #1032 overall. The PHB continues to hover above it all. #1 in fantasy gaming and #62 overall.

I notice you like to post a lot of Amazon stuff but the question is this. What exactly is 5th edition D&D's competition? It looks like it's been a one horse race since it first came out.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I notice you like to post a lot of Amazon stuff but the question is this. What exactly is 5th edition D&D's competition? It looks like it's been a one horse race since it first came out.

Pathfinder? 4e was the first edition to have real competition with the OGL coming out (and thus Pathfinder). So it would be good to compare 5e to 4e from a sales perspective because they both face similar competition. So if 5e is selling much better, that give you a basis to make a conclusion on how well it's doing.

 

[happyhermit]

I notice you like to post a lot of Amazon stuff but the question is this. What exactly is 5th edition D&D's competition? It looks like it's been a one horse race since it first came out.

In the OP it's mentioned that the PHB is @ #62 of all books, for a point of reference. So, the competition there is all books sold on Amazon or in other words literally millions of books. I am sure you can try to spin this as insignificant competition somehow.

 

[Jester David]

I notice you like to post a lot of Amazon stuff but the question is this. What exactly is 5th edition D&D's competition? It looks like it's been a one horse race since it first came out.

Well... in practice, 5e D&D has no competition. Because it's selling just that much more than any other RPG. It's just operating on a scale above every other game. It functionally has no competition.

But, in terms of alternatives, there are a HELL of a lot of other games. The decline of D&D during 4e left room for both Pathfinder and a wealth of other systems to assert themselves. And the two years playtest left lots of room for people to try other games. That paired with Kickstarter has led to a veritable smorgasbord of alternatives. You have your 13th Age, Dungeon World, Fate, FFG's Star Wars, DragonAge / Fantasy Age, Mutants & Masterminds, Shadowrun, Call of Cthulhu, Savage Worlds, and so many others.

So, no, it's not a one horse race. It's a race with lots of horses with one that is just repeatedly lapping the others.

 

[darjr]

Yes the clearly remarkable thing is that it is #62 in all books STILL.It's competition is all other entertainment.

 

[gyor]

#4 is extremely good for a book Not Out yet.

 

[TerraDave]

I notice you like to post a lot of Amazon stuff but the question is this. What exactly is 5th edition D&D's competition? It looks like it's been a one horse race since it first came out.

I started these when 5E came out to see how well the PHB and other books would do. (It hit #1 on Amazon...of all books). I kept doing them as sales remained really strong. One fun part was watching all the people try to say that what was happening was not really happening.

Your right, normally D&D does not really compete with other RPGs. What these number tell us definitively is that D&D is bigger now then in the 4E or 3.5 eras. Maybe bigger then in the 3.0 hey-day when this sight was founded--or during 2E.

Thats harder to prove, but there is now lots of evidence that at the very least 5E has brought a bunch of new people into the game.

 

[TerraDave]

Its moved up to #3, #253 in overall sales.

 

[MNblockhead]

What I love about this is that it is like going back to the 1980s, when I could walk into a B. Daltons in the Mall and browse through AD&D modules while my mom and sisters bought clothes or whatever, trying to decide which to beg my mom to buy when she stopped by to get me.

D&D is back in the main stream.