Yes to 4th edition

[ColonelHardisson]

Archetypes, spells, vancian magic, items and monsters are the real test of any edition.
There's nothing to indicate the new edition will be worse than 3rd edition - and it certainly can't get a whole lot worse than 3.5 lets face it.

Well, since 3.5 is the best edition yet, I'd have to say I disagree. It could get much, much worse.

Everyone hopes for something different with a new editon and I sure as hell hope "prestige classes" are buried deep in the 3.5 muck along with the formulaic feats+race+PrC combo.
Lets see the 4 heroic archetype of wizard, warrior, rogue and priest come to the fore.

Yeah, like that.

Prestige Classes are a great concept that has been overused and often used quite badly. Don't blame the concept for the ineptitude with which it has been handled. Same goes for feats/race/class combos. Don't blame the car for being fast, blame the idiot driver for not being able to keep it on the road.

 

[sullivan]

It would be but WotC is not a software publisher. That's like asking if McDonalds would sell their own line of cookware along with their fast food.

My 3e PHB came with a Character Generator program. Of course all in all that endevor didn't do so well. But the CharGen program was so darn handly. I still use it occationally, though 3.5 obviously makes it somewhat less useful. I do know someone that has full version though, so they eventually did get it out.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

It would be but WotC is not a software publisher. That's like asking if McDonalds would sell their own line of cookware along with their fast food.

That's really an apples-to-oranges comparison. Such software would help facillitate game play using WotC's rules or variant thereof. Having cookware by McD's wouldn't help with the eating of the food you buy there. If WotC isn't in the software biz, then they'd better get into it, or team up with someone who is.

 

[Ranger REG]

My 3e PHB came with a Character Generator program. Of course all in all that endevor didn't do so well. I do know someone that has full version though, so they eventually did get it out.

Yeah, I know, young one. I've been there when 3e came out way back in 2000. Along with the OGL movement that allows third-party software publishers to roll out their own so you have a variety to choose from.

4e may not be OGL friendly, so that means WotC will have to choose one company to license to, and the last time they did that, we got Master Tool from Fluid Entertainment. The only redeeming grace WotC made is to find another software company to support and update Master Tools but because of the initial software design (along with its flaws) they can only go so far.

 

[Ranger REG]

That's really an apples-to-oranges comparison. Such software would help facillitate game play using WotC's rules or variant thereof. Having cookware by McD's wouldn't help with the eating of the food you buy there. If WotC isn't in the software biz, then they'd better get into it, or team up with someone who is.

When I was your age, I played D&D without laptop or PDA. It isn't all that difficult.



Besides, I don't see Monopoly -- a board game that far outsells D&D -- needed a software program.

 

[sullivan]

Prestige Classes are a great concept that has been overused and often used quite badly. Don't blame the concept for the ineptitude with which it has been handled. Same goes for feats/race/class combos. Don't blame the car for being fast, blame the idiot driver for not being able to keep it on the road.

This isn't about blame, it is about who's fault it is!

Seriously though, I think it is constructive to figure out why the driver is putting it in the ditch. Because it could be a steering linkage or stability issue. Or to drop the analogy, why are people using the Prestige Class mechanic so much and why is it being used to bad effect?

Is there a demand that is outstripping the function of PrC or to which the PrC is the closest match but is still a poor match? I mentioned in another thread that it looks like our group is going to stop using 3.5 shortly. We have a player whose heart is in the AD&D 'setting' style, but when we looked at the common ground between him and other players we found that the closest to what we were trying to do was PrC. But that the PrC were still a poor match. What we really were looking for was what is typically called "classless". First for the flexibility, but also for the much smaller grained character power increments.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

When I was your age, I played D&D without laptop and PDA. It isn't all that difficult.

Seeing as I'm 40, you must be getting up there.

I've actually never gamed with a computer or a PDA. But I'd like to. It'd make things a lot easier.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Besides, I don't see Monopoly -- a board game that far outsells D&D -- needed a software program.

And, oh, by the way...you're really not going to compare the complexity of those two games in a serious manner?

 

[sullivan]

Seeing as I'm 40, you must be getting up there.

Whooot! I'm not the oldest coot! By 2 full years even.

I've actually never gamed with a computer or a PDA. But I'd like to. It'd make things a lot easier.

I've had people tell me they use them for dice rolling at the table. Damn heritics. I've used a super slim laptop for PDF reference manuals, but that is about it. I'm still stuck on the tactile of paper and pencil and little fiddly stuff.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

This isn't about blame, it is about who's fault it is!

Seriously though, I think it is constructive to figure out why the driver is putting it in the ditch. Because it could be a steering linkage or stability issue. Or to drop the analogy, why are people using the Prestige Class mechanic so much and why is it being used to bad effect?

Because people like to exploit game systems to maximize their fun? You may think it's constructive. I think it's overthinking it.

Is there a demand that is outstripping the function of PrC or to which the PrC is the closest match but is still a poor match? I mentioned in another thread that it looks like our group is going to stop using 3.5 shortly. We have a player whose heart is in the AD&D 'setting' style, but when we looked at the common ground between him and other players we found that the closest to what we were trying to do was PrC. But that the PrC were still a poor match. What we really were looking for was what is typically called "classless". First for the flexibility, but also for the much smaller grained character power increments.

Well, if you're going to go to the point of not using classes, there are already plenty of skill-based game systems out there. Classes have been, are, and likely will always be, an integral part of what makes D&D, D&D. Removing them would be pointless and would remove a big part of D&D's identity. It would be like me advocating imposing a class-based system on GURPS or BRP. That's not what they are or what their creators intended them to have. Some people like class-based systems, some like skill-based systems. 30+ years have shown indications that the vast majority of D&D players prefer classes. GURPS players prefer skill-based characters. Trying to make each more like the other just makes no sense.