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Yet Another Magic System (Arcane & Divine)

Wolv0rine

First Post
I'm fairly certain parts of this have been posted here before, although I could be confusing it with the magic item rules. But either way, here is the un-playtested Magic System for my campaign setting. With 4E looming on the horizon I don't anticipate much luck forming a group to playtest it (given who I'd be able to gather for such a group online, and the free time I'd have to do it), so I'm posting it here for feedback and usage by you all if you like.


MAGIC

Arcane Magic
Arcane magic is used by three of the Core Classes; the Wizard, the Sorcerer, and the Bard. Arcane magic is powered by Mana, a force generated by the universe and capable of affecting reality. Arcane casters learn to draw mana from the universe and imprint the magical pattern of a spell upon it. Completing the pattern of the spell releases the captured mana into the shape the spell imposed before it dissipates back into the ether.

Wizards
A wizard has learned to draw off a certain amount of arcane force (Mana) and impose a pattern upon it through the use of complex formulaic rotes called Spells.

Learning & Memorizing Spells
To be able to use a spell, a Wizard must first succeed in learning and understanding it. When a Wizard studies a spell for the first time, he is entitled to a Spellcraft check (DC: 15 + spell level) to attempt to comprehend it. If the check succeeds, then the Wizard may freely memorize and cast the spell. If the check fails, the Wizard must wait until his Spellcraft modifier increases by at least 1 before making another attempt.

A Wizard who wishes to venture from his spell books must memorize those spells he wishes to have access to while he is away. The Wizard can hold these spells in his memory for a given time before needing to return to his spell books to study them again. During this time the spells may be cast freely as long as the Wizard has sufficient Mana to power them.

A Wizard can memorize a number of spell levels equal to (Wizard Level x Intelligence bonus). Each spell is equal to its level (1st level spells count as 1, 2nd level spells count as 2, etc) except for 0 level spells which count as 1 spell level per two spells memorized. The Wizard can allot these levels any way he sees fit.

(Example: Tophin, a 9th level Wizard with a 16 Intelligence, can memorize 27 spell levels. He could chose to memorize six 1st level spells (Shield, Mage Armor, Mount, Identify, Spider Climb, and Magic Missile), four 2nd level spells (Fog Cloud, Web, Mirror Image, and Summon Monster II), two 3rd level spell (Dispel Magic, and Fly), and one 4th level spell (Ice Storm).
Tophin may cast them any way he cares to spend his 30 mana -- assuming for the sake of argument that Tophin hasn’t used his two ability score increases to add to his Intelligence.)


Memorizing the same spell more than once is impossible. For the duration that the wizard has a spell memorized that spell may be cast as long as there is mana to empower it.
The Wizard can store these spells in his memory for a given time equal his Intelligence minus (1 + spell level) days.

Mana & Spell-casting
The Wizard’s mana allotment is equal to his Intelligence modifier plus his wizard level.
  • During sleep, mana replenishes at a rate of 3 pts. per hour.
  • In full rest conditions (not sleeping, but inactive and relaxed) mana replenishes at a rate of 2 pts. per hour.
  • In semi-restful conditions (marginally active, such as a slow walk or riding), mana replenishes at a rate of 1 pts. per hour.
  • In non-restful periods, mana cannot replenish itself.
A spell costs the Wizard 1 Mana per spell level of the spell (Cantrips cost ½ Mana). The Wizard may apply any Meta-magic Feats he possesses to his spells, each meta-magic feat so applied raises the Mana cost of the spell by +1 per spell level the metamagic would otherwise increase.

(Example: Tophin, wishes to cast an Empowered Magic Missile. Empowered Spell raises the spell’s slot by two levels, thus Tophin must spend 3 mana to cast an Empowered Magic Missile.)

A Wizard may chose to cast spells directly from his spell book if it is available. Doing so does not require the Wizard to have the spell memorized, nor does it cause the spell to disappear from his spell book as happens with a scroll.

Sorcerers
Sorcerers utilize arcane energy differently than Wizards do. Where a Wizard taps arcane energy by memorizing the rote formulas of Spells, a Sorcerer channels arcane energy on a subconscious level, shaping it into spell-form by desire alone.

Learning Spells
It is because of the unusual way a sorcerer interacts with mana that he does not require spellbooks, indeed a spellbook is completely useless to him. A Sorcerer can only learn new spells by seeing them cast by another.
.
A Sorcerer may learn a new spell at any time if he can see the spell being cast. The Sorcerer must study the spell as it is being cast, after which he must make a Spellcraft check (DC: 15 + Spell level). If the check succeeds, the Sorcerer has grasped the spell on a subconscious level and may cast it from then on. If the check fails, the Sorcerer cannot grasp the spell and must wait until his Spellcraft modifier increases by at least 1 before making another attempt.

Casting Spells
Because of the peculiarity of their spell-casting methods, Sorcerers do not need to keep track of Mana. A Sorcerer can channel far greater quantities of arcane energy, far faster, than a Wizard. It is this floodgate of arcane power that makes channeling it and shaping it so very difficult.
To cast a spell, the Sorcerer must make a Charisma check (DC: 15 + (spell level * 2)), adding his Spellcraft to the roll. If the check succeeds then the spell is successfully cast. If the check is failed, the Sorcerer must check for Arcane Burn.
A Sorcerer who wishes to apply meta-magic feats to his spells may do so, adding +1 to the DC of casting the spell for each level the feat would normally raise the spell.

Bards
Bards of a certain level have the ability to channel arcane energy through their performances to achieve the effects of spells.

Learning & Memorizing Spells
Like a Wizard, the Bard must memorize the special way of performing the spell he wishes to cast. This memorization works exactly like the Wizard memorization of spells.

Mana & Spellcasting
Also like Wizards, a Bard is able to channel a given amount of mana, depending upon his level and Charisma.

The Bard’s mana allotment is equal to his Charisma modifier plus his bard level.

To cast a spell, the Bard must perform, blending the arcane energy into the very essence of the performance. The Bard must make a Perform check (DC: 15 + spell level), adding his Spellcraft skill to the roll if she has that skill. If the check succeeds then the spell is cast, if the check fails the Bard will suffer from Arcane Burn.

While they consult the same spell lists, Bards and Wizards cannot exchange, aid in, or teach each other spells because the nature of their magic use is fundamentally different.

Divine Magic
Divine magic is used by two of the Core Classes; the Cleric, the Paladin.

A caster of divine magic does not exactly ‘cast spells’. All divine magic comes from the gods, who give the divine caster the authority to perform miracles in the form of divine magic. As the voice and fist of his god in the mortal realms, the divine caster must maintain his devotion to his god.

The divine caster possesses an ability score called Faith. This score is equal to his Wisdom modifier plus his class level.

Once every 24 hours (or once a day, if your world’s day-cycle is not 24 hours) the divine caster must spend an hour in prayer; reciting litanies, asking for guidance, chanting his god’s glory, and whatnot.
If this ceremony is not performed, the divine caster will lose access to all spells of the highest level he can cast. This will happen every day that the divine caster does not perform the ceremony of devotion, losing another level of spells until the ceremony is performed.
Once the ceremony is performed again, the divine caster regains the last spell level lost, and the next spell level the next day, until all casting abilities have been returned.

Spell Access & Spellcasting
The divine caster does not need to pre-select which miracles he will have access to, because there is no preparation required.
The divine caster’s spells are limited by the access his god grants, Lesser or Greater. Lesser allows access to spells up to 4th level, while greater allows spells up to 9th level.

All divine spells require something sacred to the caster’s god as a focus (holy symbol, the god’s symbolic flower or animal, etc

To cast a divine spell, the divine caster must make a Faith roll after praying for a miracle (DC: 15 + spell level x 2), this reflects the divine caster’s strength of faith and devotion to his god, which affects the likelihood of the god allowing the miracle to take place. If the roll succeeds, the miracle is cast. If not, then the miracle is withheld, possibly because the god sensed a waver in the caster’s faith at a crucial moment.

A divine caster who wishes to apply metamagic feats to his spells may do so; adding +1 to the DC of casting the spell for each level the feat would normally raise the spell.

Clerics
Clerics are granted Lesser access to Divine magic until they reach the 9th level, at which point they are granted Greater access.

Paladins
Paladins are granted Lesser access to Divine magic.

Spell-Casting Fatigue
Many spell-casters in books can cast spells almost at will, but they also suffer dearly for it, as the magic seems to take something from them.
In truth, spell casting is wearying -- you can't simply throw off a few fireballs during a battle and be as fresh at the end of the battle as you were at the beginning.

A wizard or bard takes 1 point of subdual damage per point of Mana spent, while a sorcerer takes 1 point per spell level cast.
This subdual damage can be healed as normal. If a character is reduced to 0 hit points in this manner they will fall immediately unconscious, unable to awaken until they have regained 10% of their HP total (you can allow the caster to regain consciousness at 1 HP alternately if you desire a less strict version).

Divine spell-casters suffer from casting fatigue as well, the strain of focusing their belief in the manifest power of their deity takes its toll on the body as well.
Divine spells of 4th level and lower inflict 1 point of subdual damage per spell level, while spells of 5th level or higher inflict 2 points per spell level.

Arcane Burn
When an arcane spell-caster is channeling arcane energy (i.e. casting or maintaining a spell), he is very vulnerable. If he takes damage and loses his concentration during this time by failing a Concentration check, he suffers a backlash of magical power.
He must then make two saves: the first is a Will save (DC 10+spell level) to avoid losing 1 point from the character’s primary casting ability score permanently, the second is a Fortitude save (DC 10+spell level), to avoid taking 1d6 points of damage per level of the spell cast (modified by any meta-magic feats applied, if any).

There is no immunity to this magic and no way to reduce the amount of damage, as it is pure magical energy channeled through the caster’s body. There are no spells, magic items or feats that can protect an arcane caster from arcane burn.

Divine casters are protected from the dangers of arcane burn by their deity, who buffers the power of the magic for their mortal champion.


Addendum: Casting Check vs. No Casting Check – Why the Difference?
Within this magic system, all but the Wizard must make a check to cast a spell. Of them all, only the Wizard replies fully upon well-researched and formulaic spells. The Sorcerer is an instinctive caster, and must check against this untamed casting method. The Bard is a performer, and must check against the strength of each performance. The Cleric and Paladin must check the strength of their faith, guarding against a momentary waiver.

In truth, the Wizard is the only class without a casting check because the Wizard alone uses spell points without a reason (based on fluff) to augment it. I have considered adding in a system of spell school skills, tying them into the Wizard’s spell-casting, but it’s not something I’ve gotten around to at this time. I may in the future if the mood strikes me.
 
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Wolv0rine

First Post
*bump*
Hmm, over 40 views and no comments. No thoughts or critiques? I'm sure at least a few of you I can think of could tear some holes in it here or there. :)
 

Let me see what I can understand of it:

Wizards have a limited mana pool but auto-success magic.
Sorcerers have an unlimited mana pool but must succeed at a cast check.
Bards have a limited mana pool *and* must succeed at a cast check (although at a lower DC than the Sorcerer and a potentially higher rank, since he's adding a full Cha-based skill rather than raw Cha).
Spellcasting fatigue looks ok, but the Arcane burn rules are way too harsh: every time you're hit in combat while maintaining a spell you're liable to lose a point from your casting attribute permanently. That would cause all arcane spellcasters to use only very weak spells (to reduce the DC for the check in case they get whacked) or be reduced to idiocy or autism after a few levels. This is especially bad for Sorcerers and Bards, who are liable to take permanent ability damage every single time they cast a spell. Pick up a 1st-level human sorcerer with a 25-pt standard array and check what's the probability of him losing a point of charisma for every magic missile he casts.

Divine magic looks OK, except for the fact that at 8th level you get access to 1st-4th level spells, and at 9th level you suddenly have access to miracles -- granted, at +8 DC compared to 5th-level spells, but still. Overall, I could live with that. Oh, and metamagic feats for Divines are only worth half the levels actual spell levels are, for purpose of DC calculation. Is that deliberate?

EDIT: In fact, here's the math of the Sorcerer for you:
Str 8, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 15
1st level Human Sorcerer

Feats: Skill Focus[Spellcraft] and Iron Will
Will: 2 (base) + 2 (Wis) + 2 (Iron Will) = +6
Spellcraft: 4 (ranks) + 1 (Int) + 3 (Skill Focus) = +8

Every time she casts a 1st-level spell, she rolls Cha + Spellcraft (+10) vs. DC of 17. Chance of failure is 30%.
Upon failing, must roll a Will save (+6) vs. DC of 11 or lose a point of Cha. Chance of failure is 20%.

Total chance the attribute will go down after the first 1st-level spell cast: 6%

Total chance the attribute will go down at least 1 point after the tenth 1st-level spell: 46.14%

Total chance the attribute will go down at least 1 point after the twentieth 1st-level spell: 70.99%

By the rules, it takes 13 appropriate encounters to gain a level. Casting 1.5 spells on average per encounter, you'd get 19-20 spells cast over the course of the 1st level...
 
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Wolv0rine

First Post
Malhost Zormaeril said:
Let me see what I can understand of it:

Wizards have a limited mana pool but auto-success magic.
Sorcerers have an unlimited mana pool but must succeed at a cast check.
Bards have a limited mana pool *and* must succeed at a cast check (although at a lower DC than the Sorcerer and a potentially higher rank, since he's adding a full Cha-based skill rather than raw Cha).
*nods* Yep. Like I said in the addendum at the end, I have toyed with a magic skill style of casting check or somesuch to even out the Wizard being effectively the only caster in the Core Class list who doesn't have a casting check, but I never got around to a system for it.
I think the Sor's check and all is fairly covered by the flavor text (or am I wrong?)... the Bard I put halfway between, he has limited mana (drawing it like a wizard does), but it's his performance that he's using as a spell, so the casting depends on how well he performs it, thus a check.

Malhost Zormaeril said:
Spellcasting fatigue looks ok, but the Arcane burn rules are way too harsh: every time you're hit in combat while maintaining a spell you're liable to lose a point from your casting attribute permanently. That would cause all arcane spellcasters to use only very weak spells (to reduce the DC for the check in case they get whacked) or be reduced to idiocy or autism after a few levels. This is especially bad for Sorcerers and Bards, who are liable to take permanent ability damage every single time they cast a spell. Pick up a 1st-level human sorcerer with a 25-pt standard array and check what's the probability of him losing a point of charisma for every magic missile he casts.

Divine magic looks OK, except for the fact that at 8th level you get access to 1st-4th level spells, and at 9th level you suddenly have access to miracles -- granted, at +8 DC compared to 5th-level spells, but still. Overall, I could live with that. Oh, and metamagic feats for Divines are only worth half the levels actual spell levels are, for purpose of DC calculation. Is that deliberate?

EDIT: In fact, here's the math of the Sorcerer for you:
Str 8, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 15
1st level Human Sorcerer

Feats: Skill Focus[Spellcraft] and Iron Will
Will: 2 (base) + 2 (Wis) + 2 (Iron Will) = +6
Spellcraft: 4 (ranks) + 1 (Int) + 3 (Skill Focus) = +8

Every time she casts a 1st-level spell, she rolls Cha + Spellcraft (+10) vs. DC of 17. Chance of failure is 30%.
Upon failing, must roll a Will save (+6) vs. DC of 11 or lose a point of Cha. Chance of failure is 20%.

Total chance the attribute will go down after the first 1st-level spell cast: 6%

Total chance the attribute will go down at least 1 point after the tenth 1st-level spell: 46.14%

Total chance the attribute will go down at least 1 point after the twentieth 1st-level spell: 70.99%

By the rules, it takes 13 appropriate encounters to gain a level. Casting 1.5 spells on average per encounter, you'd get 19-20 spells cast over the course of the 1st level...
You know, it's the Divine portion of the rules that, while much easier to write than the arcane section, I'm fonder of. The sudden gaining of a big chunk of spell levels at level 9th lvl is a bit jarring, but it tends to 'be like that' when you are suddenly granted a whole new vista view. Once you hit the Greater Access point, you have proven your worth and dedication, and are allowed into the first class section of the plane. :)

Hmm, the metamagic feats... only worth half the levels actual spell levels are? No, not on purpose there I think, but I don't follow what you mean (yay dyscalculia!).

Oh man. You know, I honestly thought I'd stripped out the "if you fail a casting check you suffer Arcane Burn" parts way back when. I spent forever with Kerrick working over the arcane burn changes and whatnot, would have sworn that part was a casualty. I figured that arcane burn should be something that happens if you are actively channeling mana (you have a spell going on) and something jarring happens. I think that was still in there to include the option for interrupting a caster while they were casting a spell (not just maintaining one, because not all spells have a duration long enough to maintain), but it should NOT be a "Every time you try to cast a spell, there' an increasing surety of arcane burn". Good catch there.
 

Flame_Excess

Explorer
After a quick look:
<3 the system for wizards and sorcerors.

I don't like their drawback though ie: Spell Casting Fatigue & Arcane Burn
If these rules were added for balance, just lower it its power down.
If these rules were added for logical reason, it only makes the system more complicated and terrible (although it does make sense).

Advice: make the regen based on a score such as HP regen is with constitution.
 

Wolv0rine

First Post
Flame_Excess said:
After a quick look:
<3 the system for wizards and sorcerors.

I don't like their drawback though ie: Spell Casting Fatigue & Arcane Burn
If these rules were added for balance, just lower it its power down.
If these rules were added for logical reason, it only makes the system more complicated and terrible (although it does make sense).

Advice: make the regen based on a score such as HP regen is with constitution.
Well, it's kind of a combination of the two, really. I think the balance issue really stems out of the logical reason issue, because when I think of how to explain it's inclusion, I think of explaining it, not meta-explaining it. Then again, once I start writing about magic and magic items and spells and stuff, my brain goes right into this mode of talking in terms I think of the whole thing in.
Basically, Spellcasting Fatigue was originally put into the system as an Optional Rule. But I do like it, it's good flavor IMO.
Arcane Burn is something I took from The Brood's Shtar setting (Crimson Contracts, Arcane Strife, etc. fall under that category). It's the inherent serious dangers of channeling magic. This could easily enough be left aside as "optional" too, really. But I liked the idea of it. Arcane Burn, iirc, tends to leave interesting scars, too.

I'm a big advocate of "That's a small side-piece, if you don't want it, leave it out". :)

Honestly, I did expect more than a few "This is just too much, man" responses. But honestly, I expected the memorization part to raise hairs. hehe It's extra bookkeeping, I admit, but I think it's a strong part of the whole in that it actually includes, well.. memorization of something. Once you start using the word memorization, you really have to back that up, I feel.
 

Wolv0rine said:
Hmm, the metamagic feats... only worth half the levels actual spell levels are? No, not on purpose there I think, but I don't follow what you mean (yay dyscalculia!).

Ok, here are the relevant parts:
Wolv0rine said:
To cast a spell, the Sorcerer must make a Charisma check (DC: 15 + (spell level * 2)), adding his Spellcraft to the roll. If the check succeeds then the spell is successfully cast. If the check is failed, the Sorcerer must check for Arcane Burn.
A Sorcerer who wishes to apply meta-magic feats to his spells may do so, adding +1 to the DC of casting the spell for each level the feat would normally raise the spell.
For every level of the spell, DC rises 2 points. For every level of adjustment for metamagic, DC rises 1 point, such that the DC for the casting check isn't the same as the casting check for a regular spell of the adjusted level. For instance, an Empowered Fireball (level 3 + 2) has a casting difficulty of 23, rather than 25.

Wolv0rine said:
Oh man. You know, I honestly thought I'd stripped out the "if you fail a casting check you suffer Arcane Burn" parts way back when. I spent forever with Kerrick working over the arcane burn changes and whatnot, would have sworn that part was a casualty. I figured that arcane burn should be something that happens if you are actively channeling mana (you have a spell going on) and something jarring happens. I think that was still in there to include the option for interrupting a caster while they were casting a spell (not just maintaining one, because not all spells have a duration long enough to maintain), but it should NOT be a "Every time you try to cast a spell, there' an increasing surety of arcane burn". Good catch there.

It's because Arcane Burn will be a frequent companion to Arcane spellcasters if they decide to use spells in battle, and Ability Drain is a nasty penalty -- there are some ten things in all of the SRD which cause it, and the most common of those are Wraiths -- and it takes a fourth level spell (Restoration) to cure it, considering it is Ability Drain and not just irreversible attribute loss. So Arcane casters who don't have access to a priest who can make a DC 23 faith check are probably better off sticking with the crossbow...
 

Wolv0rine

First Post
Malhost Zormaeril said:
Ok, here are the relevant parts: For every level of the spell, DC rises 2 points. For every level of adjustment for metamagic, DC rises 1 point, such that the DC for the casting check isn't the same as the casting check for a regular spell of the adjusted level. For instance, an Empowered Fireball (level 3 + 2) has a casting difficulty of 23, rather than 25.



It's because Arcane Burn will be a frequent companion to Arcane spellcasters if they decide to use spells in battle, and Ability Drain is a nasty penalty -- there are some ten things in all of the SRD which cause it, and the most common of those are Wraiths -- and it takes a fourth level spell (Restoration) to cure it, considering it is Ability Drain and not just irreversible attribute loss. So Arcane casters who don't have access to a priest who can make a DC 23 faith check are probably better off sticking with the crossbow...
*nods* I agree, the arcane burn for failed casting checks should be removed. Especially with Spellcasting Fatigue, it's just not needed. The fatigue mechanic is enough to keep caster from just going "Damn, fail the check, well I'll try again.. and again... and again... and..."

Hmm, I see your point with the casting DC and the metamagic feats. Like I said, the system never got the playtest I wanted it to have, so I don't know if that's something that's a problem, or not a problem. I did try to eyeball it at various levels at one time or another to see if it seemed like it was working out alright, but math is not my friend.
Do you think it's a problem with the system, or just something worth pointing out? I made the check spell level *2 because spell level alone made for casting checks that were too low overall.
 

Wolv0rine said:
Hmm, I see your point with the casting DC and the metamagic feats. Like I said, the system never got the playtest I wanted it to have, so I don't know if that's something that's a problem, or not a problem. I did try to eyeball it at various levels at one time or another to see if it seemed like it was working out alright, but math is not my friend.
Do you think it's a problem with the system, or just something worth pointing out? I made the check spell level *2 because spell level alone made for casting checks that were too low overall.

Well, effectively you've just halved the levels for metamagic. Would an empowered maximised extended fireball be a problem in your campaign if casters started using it more often? It's much easier to cast them like that, leaving aside all considerations of such abstract notions as "elegance" or "isonomy". In my particular campaign, metamagic feats are something of a red-headed stepchild, since they compete with the crafting feats for slots and lose out nearly all the time...
 

Wolv0rine

First Post
Malhost Zormaeril said:
Well, effectively you've just halved the levels for metamagic. Would an empowered maximised extended fireball be a problem in your campaign if casters started using it more often? It's much easier to cast them like that, leaving aside all considerations of such abstract notions as "elegance" or "isonomy". In my particular campaign, metamagic feats are something of a red-headed stepchild, since they compete with the crafting feats for slots and lose out nearly all the time...
Hmm, do you think it would work better if meta-magic feats were applied to the spell's level before the *2 multiplier of the casting check then? That could make for some mongo casting check DCs.
Anyone who can actually DO math feel like running the numbers on both ways and seeing how they stack up? :)
 

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