D&D 5E You Cant Fix The Class Imbalances IMHO

[Tony Vargas]

It very much could be done, you dont have to ruin the game's feel either.

Unless imbalance is a non-negotiable aspect of that feel.
Feel being subjective, that's easy enough.

Or, the way the majority [play 5e ] does not reinforce or highlight the imbalances

WotCs own surveys apparently suggest that the majority of 5e fans don't play at all, which sure seems like it wouldn't reinforce or highlight class imbalance - or any other issues.

That would be a way of tolerating class imbalance.
Leaning into and exploiting it, for instance with much shorter days than the 6-8 invoked to ameliorate imbalance, would be another.
Skilled application of DM force and illusionism can mask imbalance from player perception, too.
And, just as system mastery let's you exploit an OP class, it can shore up an inferior one.

We've had as long as 50 years to come up with workarounds. 10, specifically for 5e.

 

[Scribe]

We've had as long as 50 years to come up with workarounds.

And the people playing it, are overwhelmingly under 50, and it just continues to sell, and sell, and sell, and sell.

You think the majority, hell, even 50% of the playerbase is remotely plugged in? Watching youtube videos on 'how to fix 5e because its all in the DM's hands!'?

You think the majority are even aware of 4e? Of 3e? That Elf used to be a class?

I think not.

 

[ECMO3]

That only makes it a different game if you consider radical class imbalance a defining trait of D&D.

It is a defining trait of D&D and "fixing" it will result in a less fun and less popular game IMO.

 

[Ancalagon]

1: It's easy to balance damage potential. Everything else is much more difficult, because spells can be tool to fix/avoid problems. How do you compare a fighter's ability to action surge vs a wizard's ability to have a familiar (with all the utility that has). A wizard cast fly and lifts the party up the unclimbable cliff. How much damage is that's worth? beats me!

2: I think we need perhaps to look at what other systems do to balance classes - specifically casters vs non casters. And one of those things is by limiting the number of spells a caster can know.

Imagine you met me in real life, and, after dazzling/boring you with my wit, I then tell you that I know THREE spells, and then prove to you without a doubt that I'm not joking. You would be BLOWN AWAY (figuratively! I wouldn't blow you up with magic!). I would be the greatest mage on earth!

Buuuut in D&D it's traditional that many casters either know all the spells (clerics etc) or can learn many of them (wizards, some sorcerer subclasses with extra spells). But it doesn't have to be this way! In many systems, a mage of some sort will know but a handful of spells. This way, a caster can solve/bypass a few problems, but not 3/4 of them. This of course means that the caster must have decent skills/options that aren't magical, like any other adventurer. But it's really helpful to avoid the plot shaping dominance that casters get past a certain level.

 

[Tony Vargas]

You think the majority are even aware of 4e? Of 3e? That Elf used to be a class?

Not at all. I expect the majority of the new fans acquired in the last 8 years or so are relatively unaware of alternatives to 5e.

 

[Scribe]

Not at all. I expect the majority of the new fans acquired in the last 8 years or so are relatively unaware of alternatives to 5e.

Relatively unaware? To put it lightly.

For the vast majority of the player base, which is larger by many degrees than the player base has likely ever been, 5e is the end all, be all.

For that same majority, they are not us. They are not connected to online discussion. They do not bear the trauma of decades of online discourse. They do not look at balance, as we do. They do not see it. They do not care.

They play the game, they play the classes that match the class fantasy in their heads, and they likely sit around with their friends and have a laugh.

To many of us, the unwashed masses are filthy casuals, and they not only do not care, but Wizards doesnt care either, not really.

 

[Tony Vargas]

They do not look at balance, as we do. They do not see it. They do not care.

The 70%(?) who don't play, certainly.

For the vast majority of the player base, 5e is the end all, be all.

It seems obvious that, if you didn't have a high tolerance for imbalances, you wouldn't play an imbalanced game, if there were practical alternatives.

 

[Scribe]

It seems obvious that, if you didn't have a high tolerance for imbalances, you wouldn't play an imbalanced game, if there were practical alternatives.

This is a misleading statement in multiple ways, making assumptions that you simply cannot prove out. There are a billion 'alternatives' out there.

The way the game is played, the 'imbalance' you are so wounded by, doesnt seem to be an issue, at least not one that is crippling 5e's success.

Maybe, just maybe, for the majority of players, the game isnt all that imbalanced at all? Maybe, the player base is not full of people looking to extract every ounce of optimization and personal attention. Maybe, and I would say the numbers actually bear this out, that player base is full of guys playing Fighters, and Champions, because maybe, they literally dont care about the perceived 'imbalance' as long as they get to have a few drinks and hit something now and again in combat, while laughing with the boys and Bob doing something stupid again while the Bard tries to get the NPC to sleep with him.

But no, it cannot be that, a generation of kids who grew up worrying about balance in video games and optimizing the fun out of it, just...uhh...doesnt care, when it comes to the 'obvious' imbalance, of D&D...while they...checks notes play Fighters.

 

[Zardnaar]

Relatively unaware? To put it lightly.

For the vast majority of the player base, which is larger by many degrees than the player base has likely ever been, 5e is the end all, be all.

For that same majority, they are not us. They are not connected to online discussion. They do not bear the trauma of decades of online discourse. They do not look at balance, as we do. They do not see it. They do not care.

They play the game, they play the classes that match the class fantasy in their heads, and they likely sit around with their friends and have a laugh.

To many of us, the unwashed masses are filthy casuals, and they not only do not care, but Wizards doesnt care either, not really.

Well a lot are online as such just not forums. Youtube, Twitter, reddit etc.

 

[Scribe]

Well a lot are online as such just not forums. Youtube, Twitter, reddit etc.

Yes, and I would have said the same for MtG, but it's simply not the case.