You primary stat should never be lower than 18

[Zurai]

It is basically trading +2 to Fortitude saves and +4 Hit Points for the extra +1 to AC, to-hit rolls, Reflex saves, and to most other archer-ranger-related abilities and skills. To me, although it is a tough call, it seems to be worth the trade off.

You're also losing a lot of hit points. A level 30 ranger gets 157+Con hit points. With a 10 Con, you have 167 HP and 6 Surges for a total of 413 hit points. With a 14 Con, you have 171 HP and 8 Surges for a total of 507 hit points.

4 Con difference leads to 94 more hit points - and that's not even counting "riders" on a healing surge, such as Healing Word's +6d6 HP returned.

 

[Spatula]

Do you think these Dargonborn Paladin stats would be better overall?

Str 15, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 18

I would suffer a bit on Opportunity Attacks though with having a lower Str but I think the higher Cha and Wis would more than pay off.

Charisma is more important than Strength for paladins, so yes those are decent stats. Unlike the cleric, who has STR and WIS-based powers at every level, there are paladin levels where your only options are CHA-based.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Are you sure about that Spatula?

I (albeit briefly) mapped out a 30 level str paladin build, and I was pretty happy with the str based powers at most, if not all levels. The only bummer was my 3rd human at will - enfeebling smite, or some such, that was cha based.

Trivia aside, I agree that daddystabz's DB paladin is fine... except that 15 str may encourage development at wis expense.

 

[daddystabz]

I guess what it comes down to is that if I want to start with an 18 in a stat as a Dragonborn Paladin, which stat do I want it in? Str or Cha?

 

[Nikolai II]

No, you can't, actually. Everybody is supposed to have a +<X> weapon/implement appropriate to their level all the time. So if you fall behind with your stats, thats it- you're behind forever. There simply aren't many ways to compensate for the lost attack bonus, and almost all of them (beyond star pact) depend on someone else giving you the bonus.

Umm.. no? Someone always gets their stuff first. Sometimes all will have the same bonuses, but the way parcels are divided this will not always be true.

And what is this talk about "every level"? You don't always have to pick from your highest level, and you can retrain upwards/downwards later if you change your mind. (Not to mention that you won't be getting more attack powers once you have four of each)

 

[evilbob]

You don't always have to pick from your highest level, and you can retrain upwards/downwards later if you change your mind.

I think this person was talking about stats and not powers. As in: your stats cannot be retrained and they go up at a constant rate with enemy defenses, so if you start low in an important stat, you cannot make that up without getting far ahead in item bonuses.

 

[kennew142]

not if you choose the race with that in mind. i think thats what the OP wanted to say- you should buy a 16 and play a race that has a +2.

On the other hand, you could try role-playing and build the character that best fits your concept - instead of trying to squeeze every point of combat advantage out of the character. I can't imagine ever choosing a character race based on what bonuses it gave me to what stat.

I've only had a chance to play two of the five 4e characters I've built. Neither has an 18 in anything, and neither of them has been even remotely ineffective in combat.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with character optimization, if that's how you like to play. But it's a little arrogant to assume that everyone else must play the same way. For 30+ years, lots of players have been making characters based on character concept and background instead of power/optimization.

Beginning the game with a +3 bonus to hit from stats doesn't make a character too weak or ineffective. It's only one point less than having an 18 in your primary stat - that is, +1 to hit and +1 to damage. Like everything else in character creation, it's a choice.

I will say that the OP is wrong. No one has to have an 18 in their primary stat.

 

[Spatula]

Are you sure about that Spatula?

I (albeit briefly) mapped out a 30 level str paladin build, and I was pretty happy with the str based powers at most, if not all levels. The only bummer was my 3rd human at will - enfeebling smite, or some such, that was cha based.

Trivia aside, I agree that daddystabz's DB paladin is fine... except that 15 str may encourage development at wis expense.

That was my recollection from trying to build a STR-based paladin. I remember having to multiclass into cleric to cover a level or two of STR-less powers, but I'll have to go back and check now that you've made me doubt myself! I definitely think there's more powers to choose from for CHA than STR, in any case.

 

[Cadfan]

Regarding the dragonborn paladin mentioned above, have you considered going 17/13/10/10/13/17? You could actually squeak out another 2 points by dropping dex or int to an 8, but I hate doing that for personal, lunatic reasons.

 

[Tony Vargas]

On the other hand, you could try role-playing and build the character that best fits your concept.

I always prefer to build to concept, but, so far, I've found less support for that aproach in 4e than in 3e. Classes can no longer be turned into 'building blocks' via multiclassing, and deviating from the Primary/secondary attributes of your 'build' really hurts.

I'm not condemning 4e, there are trade-offs in game design and 4e set out to make the game more accessible, less troubled by power-gaming, with better balance among the PC classes and more consistent feel of play through all 30 levels. That's a lot to accomplish, and if the flexibility that allows customized build to concept has to go because it also enables power gaming excesses and class imbalance (and I can see how that'd be the case), then we just have to accept that, and apreciate what we're getting in return (like no more CoDzilla and Fighter SUX threads).

The 'treadmill' aspect of 4e is also a tradeoff to get the same degree of playability and fun at all levels. It does mean that a character who's a little ineffectual at 1st level because of his stat or race choices compared to his class is going to remain a little ineffectual through all 30 levels - because, if there were options in place to let you 'fix' such a character's effectiveness, those options could be abused by powergamers to break the system.


Of course you should still build a character you want to play. It's just probably a good idea to start by looking at 'builds' and the races that work well with them, and see if that sparks any ideas.