Fundamental Differences between 3 and 3.5?

Gentlegamer

Adventurer
When 3e premiered I bought the core books and played a few games. I have been away from the game for a while and I'm gathering that the changes between 3 and 3.5 are more than cosmetic. What do you consider the fundamental differences or even the "nitpicky" differences between the two editions? I need to decide whether to keep the 3e books or get the newer 3.5 rulebooks. As an old school gamer, I don't automatically consider the newest edition the best edition, so I'm looking for some feedback . . .
 

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The only real differences that might come close to being 'fundamental' that I can think of is DR. But even with that, I use 3.0 monsters and such in my 3.5 games with no problem at all.
 

Delemental

First Post
Perhaps the biggest stylistic difference you'll notice is that while the use of a grid and miniatures is presented as a very good, but optional idea in 3.0, it's integrated much more into the 3.5 rules as a default method of playing. You can still play without minis, of course, but all of the examples of play in the PHB will frame things in terms like "squares moved" rather than "inches moved", and advises you to place the center of any area-effect at a "grid intersection".

Depending on your attitude toward minis and battlemats, this may make you feel like the game has shifted more toward a wargame than an RPG. For myself, I think it just does better at explaining how combat maneuvering works using tools that I was already using.

Several spells have been decreased in power from 3.0. Harm now does dice of damage rather than simply taking its target to only d4 hp remaining (avoiding the Harm/Quickened ILW combos). Haste doesn't give an extra action, but an extra attack in a full attack action, making it a better fighter buff that a caster buff. The 'animal buff' spells (Bull's Strength, etc) had been reduced to durations of 1 minute/level, making them useful for only a single encounter rather than an entire day, but they now give a flat +4 bonus rather than 1d4+1.

Some classes have changed. The ranger's abilities are now spread out throughout it's levels, rather than being front-loaded in the first two levels, and there is now a archery-based option for them. Paladin's mounts are now summonable creatures (a trait commonly referred to here as the "PokeMount"), sorcerers and bards have the option to change out spells as they go up levels, and the monk has been reworked to be more in line with the other classes (they no longer have a separate BAB progression for unarmed attacks).

Damage resistance changed. Now you must have the specific material named to bypass DR, rather that having that 'or better'. For example, in 3.0 you can bypass a lycanthrope's DR with a silver weapon or a magic weapon, which was considered 'better' than silver. Now you have to have a silver weapon, even if you're using a +5 sword. Also, DR that is defeated by a magical weapon is no longer rated by the 'plus' of the weapon; you just need a magic weapon, whether it's a +1 axe or a +5 holy avenger. Some may complain that it leads to a 'golf bag syndrome' where PCs have to carry around multiple weapons with different properties. I haven't found this to be the case, as in general they also decreased the amount of DR creatures get (so something that was DR 10/silver in 3.0 might be DR 5/silver in 3.5), which means you can still kill them without the special weapon, it just takes longer.

Overall I approve of the changes, though some aren't so great IMO. Part of the defining everything in terms of map grids caused them to define all creatures as occupying a square area. Thus horses take up a 10x10 space, rather than a 10x5. While I understand the logic, it still feels wrong. They also now give sizes to weapons that are comparable to creature sizes, and you take a penalty if you are using the wrong-size weapon. Thus a halfling is fine using a Small shortsword, but not a Medium shortsword. My main beef with this is that as far as I can tell there was nothing wrong with the way weapons were defined in 3.0, and I don't see the need for the change. With the other changes, I can at least see why it was done.

Honestly, there's not enough difference between 3.0 and 3.5 to make the older version any less fun. I'd suggest getting a copy of the 3.5 SRD online and looking through it to see what you like and what you don't, and grabbing the stuff you like.
 

diaglo

Adventurer
Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
The only real differences that might come close to being 'fundamental' that I can think of is DR. But even with that, I use 3.0 monsters and such in my 3.5 games with no problem at all.


weapon sizing.. damage and now availability
the H spells.. haste, harm, heal, hold person
some skills and feats... like Weapon finesse and Read Lips
facing.. check out the spell shield
class abilities.. check out the ranger

i guess it depends on how you use the rules
 

Gez

First Post
Devils are listed by nicknames rather than by name (e.g., "Mr. Frosty McFreezing" instead of "Gelugon", "Horny Devil" instead of "Cornugon"). I find it to be very silly.
 

beaver1024

First Post
The real difference is that clerics and druids are vastly more overpowering in 3.5 than in 3.0. Whilst wiz/sorcs are nerfed into the ground.
 

Darkness

Hand and Eye of Piratecat [Moderator]
Gez said:
Devils are listed by nicknames rather than by name (e.g., "Mr. Frosty McFreezing" instead of "Gelugon", "Horny Devil" instead of "Cornugon"). I find it to be very silly.
They're also often a lot tougher than in 3.0. Demons too.
 

Voadam

Legend
beaver1024 said:
The real difference is that clerics and druids are vastly more overpowering in 3.5 than in 3.0. Whilst wiz/sorcs are nerfed into the ground.

how are you seeing clerics as more powerful in 3.5?

Harm is capped on damage, hold person can be resisted from round to round, buffs last shorter amounts of time.

What are the 3.5 power boosts to clerics over 3.0?
 

Shemeska

Adventurer
Gez said:
Devils are listed by nicknames rather than by name (e.g., "Mr. Frosty McFreezing" instead of "Gelugon", "Horny Devil" instead of "Cornugon"). I find it to be very silly.

Man that cheesed me off when they did that. Lovely assumption about the intelligence of your product buyers that they won't understand the language roots for Gelugon, Cornugon, Osyluth, etc. I seemed like a combination of dumbing the game down and (IMHO) misplaced 1e nostalgia.
 

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