Freedom of Movement, providing "movement as normal"

Yesterday we had a peculiar discussion about the benefits provided by the Freedom of Movement spell, and specifically regarding its use of underwater adventuring. It is quite unclear how it interacts with other types of movement, and what exactly is and is not possible with it. Two relevant parts from the spell are: This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. and The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater.

What exactly does this mean with regards to other types of movement, and what exactly would the definition of "impedes movement" be?

The two main problems we were discussing:
1) Would it be possible to use other movement types, besides your Land or Swim movement rates underwater (such as Fly)?
2) Does Freedom of Movement confer immunity to "external influences"; e.g. would it be possible to walk freely through a raging river and not be swept away in the stream?

Personally, I think both answers to both questions should be no. Flying is only possible in the air, and I don't think your should become immune to hurricane winds or (even worse) Bull Rushes or Trips (as those definitely impede your ability to move normally).

I'd like to hear some other opinions on this matter, so fire away.

I would interpret the spell to allow movement though hurricane winds or a raging River. My current DM however would agree with you, that it does not.

In my opinion if it makes you immune to grapple it would make you immune to natural impediments like wind, current, and even bull rush or trip.

Freedom of Movement
Abjuration
Level: Brd 4, Clr 4, Drd 4, Luck 4, Rgr 4
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.
The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, allow water breathing.
Material Component: A leather thong, bound around the arm or a similar appendage.

Click to expand...

Edit: I'm on the fence with bull rush and trip. If it would grant immunity to falling, say grease. Then would it prevent sliding down an embankment, and then what angle, a straight wall? Obviously not, and as a previous DM would say, "It's a slippery slope". It might be best to disallow bull rush and trip, maneuvers that would have probably been included in the spell description if they were intended to be covered.

IMHO that spell requires some courage from the DM to rule case-by-case and take responsibility of the consequences. I would not look for a general way about how to rule in/out any use of it.

In those two cases, I would probably allow the one about resisting the effects of a strong current. It seems a clever and creative use of that spell after all, and this I'd like to support. If the current was created by a spell, I may think about requiring a caster level check to see which of the two spells is stronger.

More undecided about flying in water, but probably I'd allow it as well.

In my underwater campaign I've had to deal with Freedom of Movement quite often, and Li Sherron is correct in saying that it's often on a case by case basis. To answer your questions, thought, we treat FoM like flying underwater using your swim speed or land speed, depending on the character and spells in place, to determine movment. I wouldn't allow Fly to work underwater, and I would allow FoM to negate winds, currents, etc. that attempt to direct your movement.

Pinotage

Murazor said:

1) Would it be possible to use other movement types, besides your Land or Swim movement rates underwater (such as Fly)?

Click to expand...

This is the easier one to answer: No. When underwater you are swimming, end-of-story. You use your swim speed or whatever your swim speed would be with appropriate swim checks (1/4 speed, etc.). One problem, however, is that it doesn't say land speed, just 'speed', so the default speed you use would probably have to be the creature's default speed (the first speed value listed).

Murazor said:

2) Does Freedom of Movement confer immunity to "external influences"; e.g. would it be possible to walk freely through a raging river and not be swept away in the stream?

Click to expand...

This one's a lot more open to debate. The thing you have to be very careful of, though, are the side effects. For example, if you are immune, for lack of a better word, to the effects of the current, doesn't that make it impossible for you to swim and you'd sink like a stone? In fact, freedom of movement in such a case becomes a potential killer. Obviously, that's not right, so you could limit it to just those external influences, magical or not, that reduce your 'normal' movement rate (from 1/4 speed with a Swim speed for example).

Note that I don't think that a bull rush or a trip impedes your movement. Bull rush moves you, outside of your turn, but you can continue to move somewhere else normally. Trip puts you on your butt, but you can get up and move normally. While prone, you could take a full-round action to crawl 5ft, as normal. For a strong current, I would have the current move you (once a round for example), and you can swim as normal (despite the current), but as long as you stay in it, you get moved down stream.

Tough questions, but that's my opinion on it.

Infiniti2000 said:

This is the easier one to answer: No. When underwater you are swimming, end-of-story.

Click to expand...

How can you swim if the water doesn't provide any resistance to your movement? I would think you'd need to walk.

This one's a lot more open to debate. The thing you have to be very careful of, though, are the side effects. For example, if you are immune, for lack of a better word, to the effects of the current, doesn't that make it impossible for you to swim and you'd sink like a stone?

Click to expand...

Ding.

thread starter said:

1) Would it be possible to use other movement types, besides your Land or Swim movement rates underwater (such as Fly)?
2) Does Freedom of Movement confer immunity to "external influences"; e.g. would it be possible to walk freely through a raging river and not be swept away in the stream?

Click to expand...

(All the below are IMHO)
1. No, just land movement or magical flight.
2. Yes.

I see FoM as (figuratively) coating the target in non-friction. You can't grab him, he doesn't suffer resistance from fluids (air/water). Grease, trip, bull rush, overrun, all do not involve needing to grab or grapple the target, so all would work fine.

IIRC the sage advice entry [not realy rules] suggested the spell simply lets you ignore the numeric penalties of being underwater, while retaining swiming capabilities.

I am of the camp of "Immune to water hindering your movement?" Then you fall to the ocean floor.

frankthedm said:

I am of the camp of "Immune to water hindering your movement?" Then you fall to the ocean floor.

Click to expand...

Which is really, really dumb. Seriously.

frankthedm said:

I am of the camp of "Immune to water hindering your movement?" Then you fall to the ocean floor.

Click to expand...

Depends on how you specify the influence of FoM. If, like I do, it only avoids those affects that attempt to 'direct' your movement, then you still experience normal swimming conditions under all other circumstances. It doesn't negate friction, it just magically negates certain effects. Surely if you were frictionless you wouldn't be able to hold on to a weapon or something. It's a much more specific thing only targetted at certain effects that tend to what to change your position/movement capability.

Pinotage

It is a really bad idea to assign flavor text to the spell (like being coated in non-friction) and then houserule the spell based on that flavor text. It will break down a whole lot more that way unless you are extraordinarily careful or you create additional houserules to deal with the consequences.

werk: "How can you swim if the water doesn't provide any resistance to your movement? I would think you'd need to walk."

What do you walk on when the water has no substance to you? The only choice is swimming.

werk: "1. No, just land movement or magical flight."

Note that magical flight that grants you a fly speed is specifically not allowed underwater. Fly is only in the Air. From the SRD, "A creature with a fly speed can move through the air ..."