Advice needed: PC Alignment, and NPC question

I'm going to start running the 1st module in two weeks, and I need a little advice.

I have two separate questions:

1.) I'm thinking about replacing Torrent with one of the PCs who is working with the Resistance. Will this cause any issues later on? It doesn’t look like it, but I wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions.

I only have The Scouring of Gate Pass at the moment, although I will be signing up for the subsciption later this month.

In broader terms, does the party really need to take along any of the NPCs introduced in the module? It doesn't look like it, but I'm not yet sure what the rest of the modules hold.

2.) It looks like most of the PCs will be either evil-aligned or neutral with evil tendencies. I’ve got a way to get them into the initial adventure and working with the Resistance that doesn’t require hardly any change to the module as written. I’m not so much sure about the rest of the Adventure Path, though.

Does anyone have any tips for running evil PCs through the Adventure Path, or can anyone think of areas where evil PCs will be a problem?

Note: I told the players that I would allow evil alignment as long as they could A.) work with the other PCs and find a reason to be in the adventure and B.) not be the destructive, insane evil that is the stereotype. I’ve also told them that if it becomes an issue, or I think it is disrupting the group/game, I will take steps, and it will probably involve either new character(s) or a dramatic alignment shift via DM fiat. I know my group, though, and I don’t believe it will be an issue in that way.

Evil PC's

The usual problems running evil PC's aside you need to have a really good hook to keep them focused. The idea of acquiring wealth and power is usually enough motivation for an evil group... however if their is only one item of interest the inter-party fight will be inevitable to determine who wins the prize... separate but equal rewards should be the driving home point. Perhaps the party holds value to their personal freedom and the inquisition has other plans for any spell casters not a part of their organization... common goal escape and undermine the Empire would make them somewhat anti-heroes but whose going to split hairs... in my experience, fear and greed are the best motivating factors for an evil party.

Hope this helps,
William Holder

sirwmholder said:

The usual problems running evil PC's aside you need to have a really good hook to keep them focused. The idea of acquiring wealth and power is usually enough motivation for an evil group...

Click to expand...

I actually told the PCs that they needed to come up with a non-money based reason to be in the adventure. So far, I've liked the ideas that have come up - one because he's a spellcaster, and hates the Empire (he'd been captured by Inquistors, and just barely escaped), another because he needs to get out of Gate Pass ASAP (con gone bad), and so jumps at the Resistance's offer to escort their rep and the case out, etc.

I'm wondering about if there are certain sections of the adventure path that may need tweaking for evil characters (like the intro in the first module), or if anyone who has ran/read the modules to date can point out areas that might need consideration, etc...

You might have problems finding motivation for evil characters later on. But you could tweak the plot a bit so they're looking for the Torch for the bad guys, instead, I guess.

Goddess FallenAngel said:

1.) I'm thinking about replacing Torrent with one of the PCs who is working with the Resistance. Will this cause any issues later on? It doesn’t look like it, but I wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions.

I only have The Scouring of Gate Pass at the moment, although I will be signing up for the subsciption later this month.

In broader terms, does the party really need to take along any of the NPCs introduced in the module? It doesn't look like it, but I'm not yet sure what the rest of the modules hold.

Click to expand...

The NPCs are present to give some flavor to the setting, and for those GMs who like to have something to do when the players start talking for hours at a time, and who like to have an in-game method of providing exposition. None of them are necessary for the plot, though I'd like to think that their presence won't be detrimental, since they're working alongside the PCs, not trying to be in charge.

2.) It looks like most of the PCs will be either evil-aligned or neutral with evil tendencies. I’ve got a way to get them into the initial adventure and working with the Resistance that doesn’t require hardly any change to the module as written. I’m not so much sure about the rest of the Adventure Path, though.

Does anyone have any tips for running evil PCs through the Adventure Path, or can anyone think of areas where evil PCs will be a problem?

Click to expand...

This depends on whether by evil you mean, "Is self-centered and wants what's best for him," which in my mind is the natural human state, and thus is neutral (the 'evil tendencies' come when you're okay with hurting others to get what you want) or "Takes pleasure in causing harm to others, whether it benefits him or not," which is actually closer to the official D&D take on evil.

When I originally ran what became the campaign saga, I didn't use alignment, but I told the players to have characters who would get involved. Three PCs were fleeing because they were magic-users, and one was going to Lyceum because he saw the war as an opportunity to make a lot of money, by betraying Seaquen if it came to that.

One was willing to betray his allies to save himself, and ultimately did at the end. I would have pegged him at True Neutral. One was looking for money and eventually was swayed by the plight of others in the war, turning from Chaotic Neutral to Chaotic Good. One was looking to find a purpose for himself, and determined that the world had tipped too far toward suffering, so when he did good deeds it was for the sake of balancing the scales. He was Lawful Neutral. There was only one good guy, a gnome whose life sucked, and who wanted to make sure others didn't suffer like he had, which made him pretty much Neutral Good.

Then later on the group was joined by a former inquisitor who really was an evil person, but did it by taking advantage of weaker people. Since the PCs weren't weak, he wouldn't hurt them, and their goals lined up with his, because he wanted revenge against Leska for trying to kill him.

The thing about the War is that most of the people involved are neutral. They have national affiliations and personal goals, but they're not fighting for ideals. They're fighting for safety or security or to promote their nation. In such a conflict, characters just need to have a reason to be opposed to Ragesia, since Ragesia is a threat to them. They don't necessarily have to want to save the day, just save themselves.

Evil characters (and I mean selfish, not "bwahahaha I love to cause pain") will likely see the war as an opportunity to get power, and the Torch of the Burning Sky -- the recovery of which drives the plot for several adventures -- is one of the most powerful items in the world, if you have an army with which to take advantage of it. Really, the only motivation you need is not wanting to be killed by Ragesia. With that basis, any adventure -- even one with 'heroic' goals -- can be justified as a way to ensure the PCs are safe from Ragesia.

From where I am at, half-way through the second module, there is little problem with providing motivation to a non-good party.

There is a concern, however, in that a number of encounters are set up with a moral twist to them.

For instance, one 'random' encounter gives the characters a chance to save a woman from a burning building.. I described the scene with a few townsfolk milling around. My group, bless their hearts, said 'well...someone else will figure out how to save her'

I am reading ahead and trying how to adjust the moral challenges to reflect the ambivilent attitude of the group...there not 'evil' per se, just more concerned about their success/safety than anyone elses.

Didn't even stop to bury the body of the old Mage after raiding the bounty hunters camp...just left him there {after taking the shroud and the Fighter is wearing the dead cat like a talisman around his neck....}

RangerWickett said:

This depends on whether by evil you mean, "Is self-centered and wants what's best for him," which in my mind is the natural human state, and thus is neutral (the 'evil tendencies' come when you're okay with hurting others to get what you want) or "Takes pleasure in causing harm to others, whether it benefits him or not," which is actually closer to the official D&D take on evil.

Click to expand...

My PCs are somewhere in-between, I think.....

RangerWickett said:

Evil characters (and I mean selfish, not "bwahahaha I love to cause pain") will likely see the war as an opportunity to get power, and the Torch of the Burning Sky -- the recovery of which drives the plot for several adventures -- is one of the most powerful items in the world, if you have an army with which to take advantage of it. Really, the only motivation you need is not wanting to be killed by Ragesia. With that basis, any adventure -- even one with 'heroic' goals -- can be justified as a way to ensure the PCs are safe from Ragesia.

Click to expand...

That's pretty much the conclusion I was hoping to come to... Thank you for your advice!

Primitive Screwhead said:

I am reading ahead and trying how to adjust the moral challenges to reflect the ambivilent attitude of the group...there not 'evil' per se, just more concerned about their success/safety than anyone elses.

Didn't even stop to bury the body of the old Mage after raiding the bounty hunters camp...just left him there {after taking the shroud and the Fighter is wearing the dead cat like a talisman around his neck....}

Click to expand...

Wow... yeah, your PCs sound about like mine might be.



Everyone - thanks for the advice and comments!

Goddess FallenAngel said:

1.) I'm thinking about replacing Torrent with one of the PCs who is working with the Resistance. Will this cause any issues later on? It doesn’t look like it, but I wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions.

I only have The Scouring of Gate Pass at the moment, although I will be signing up for the subsciption later this month.

In broader terms, does the party really need to take along any of the NPCs introduced in the module? It doesn't look like it, but I'm not yet sure what the rest of the modules hold.

Click to expand...

I asked this question a while back, and got the same answer - Torrent can happily be replaced with no problems.

I have all the adventures up to Mad King's Banquet, and there's certainly no issue so far.

I also read a review somewhere - RPG Now, I think - which felt NPC Torrent had the potential to take over if the DM wasn't careful, so I'm doubly determined to replace her with a PC.

My group has 5 characters, so party strength isn't an issue. If you have 4 and no Torrent, some of the encounters (which already look pretty tough) might become deadly. Or maybe not. I haven't run anything yet, and its hard to tell from reading an adventure how it will turn out in play.