Game Mechanics that cannot be "Justified"

GSHamster · Aug 27, 2008

What would you do if you had a really good game mechanic, but that mechanic can't really be justified as existing in the world?

An example of this is the initial hand drawn in a card game. The initial hand is a random subset of your total abilities. I think it's a superb mechanic for games, as it makes each game slightly different, depending on your draw.

It's a great mechanic if you can accept the metaphor that your powers/abilities are cards in a deck. On the other hand, there's no reason that your powers should act like cards in a deck. It's a pure game mechanic that really cannot be justified in real-world terms. It's really hard to find a similar mechanic in games which do not use a deck of cards.

So what are your thoughts about mechanics like these? Are they acceptable in RPGs?

(More on this can be found at http://blessingofkings.blogspot.com/2008/07/initial-hand-in-ccgs.html . Rather WoW-centric, though, so I thought I'd bring it here to see other RPG player reactions.)

Filcher · Aug 27, 2008

Absolutely acceptable, depending on taste.

I mean, are hit points (whatever the edition) that believable? I'm good until I drop dead. But it works, so we use it, and since it has been around for 30 years we deem it "believable."

GSHamster · Aug 27, 2008

Filcher said:
Absolutely acceptable, depending on taste.

I mean, are hit points (whatever the edition) that believable? I'm good until I drop dead. But it works, so we use it, and since it has been around for 30 years we deem it "believable."

Well, the exact details and nuances of hitpoints are little weird, but I think the basic idea that "some people can take more hits than other people" is fairly sound.

But what about mechanics which are even more abstract? Is there a limit to how abstract a mechanic can be before it stops being viable?

Obryn · Aug 27, 2008

Is this some kind of oblique reference to 4e's non-magical encounter/daily abilities? If so, we've kinda gone over this one over and over again.

-O

jdrakeh · Aug 27, 2008

Filcher said:
I mean, are hit points (whatever the edition) that believable?

Or, for that matter, are character levels justified in game settings? What about pre-scripted arguments? Or dramatic editing mechanics? For the most part, they don't seem to be. The important thing to remember, though, is that these are games dedicated to simulating other entertainment mediums or realities for the purpose of entertainment.

As games, the primary concern of such constructs is ideally with providing playable simulation, not with providing 100% accurate physics models. That said, some game systems have pursued the latter to the exclusion of the former and failed horrendously as a result. Indeed, I would argue that any game placing form before function will be doomed to the same fate.

So, to answer your question. . . yes, such abstractions are permissible. I'll go one step further, though, and also say that they are required. Fundamentally, abstract game mechanics are what distance the simulation of a given thing from the real deal. It's the difference between punching somebody in the face and rolling dice to simulate punching somebody in the face.

If that makes any sense (sorry, it's late here).

Jürgen Hubert · Aug 27, 2008

I've gone over a similar issue here. Basically, I'm willing to sacrifice plausibility for dramatic needs - otherwise I wouldn't be able to enjoy any edition of D&D.

And if I do want an RPG firmly grounded in realism, I just play GURPS instead of trying to turn D&D into something it was never meant to be.

GSHamster · Aug 27, 2008

jdrakeh said:
As games, the primary concern of such constructs is ideally with providing playable simulation, not with providing 100% accurate physics models. That said, some game systems have pursued the latter to the exclusion of the former and failed horrendously as a result. Indeed, I would argue that any game placing form before function will be doomed to the same fate.

I'm talking about mechanics that go beyond that, that do not simulate.

I'm not talking 3E vs 4E or anything like that. My post was actually sparked by an upcoming MMO called Wizard 101. In that game, you play a wizard, and you explicitly use a deck of cards to act as your spells, and your initial draw determines what spells you can start casting. There's no explanation or justification for this, it's just the default mechanic for spellcasting.

On a game level, it works superbly, and makes every fight interesting. But on a simulation level, it really makes no sense why in battle 1 you can cast spell X, but in battle 2, you can only cast spell Y.

And further, if you try to implement similar mechanics without using the explicit deck-of-cards metaphor, it makes even less sense that you only have a random subset of your abilities available.

Fallen Seraph · Aug 27, 2008

Dramatic and storytelling needs and ease of use of forefront when it comes to mechanics.

So even if a mechanic is abstract if it allows a very easy use of the mechanic to create great stories and dramatic events then it is fine in my books.

Stalker0 · Aug 27, 2008

GSHamster said:
In that game, you play a wizard, and you explicitly use a deck of cards to act as your spells, and your initial draw determines what spells you can start casting. There's no explanation or justification for this, it's just the default mechanic for spellcasting.

Well as we all know in the real world magic is a primal and chaotic force that can only be directed haphazardly by the mind...generally in times of stress when our adrenaline levels are high.

It appears this game is just using a very accurate simulationist method of describing magic.

Or in other words....its amazing what you can justify with flavor text when you set your mind to it.

Huw · Aug 27, 2008

GSHamster said:
It's really hard to find a similar mechanic in games which do not use a deck of cards.

I know of one. There was a variant rule suggested in a magazine some time ago (might've been White Dwarf), and inspired by the fact that sometimes, you get of bed feeling great, and sometimes you have a bad night and feel terrible.

The mechanic is very simple. Re-roll your hit points every morning. I've never dared use it though :hmm: