4th Ed D&D just like Old School D&D-- when it comes to Cease & Desist Letters

jephlewis

First Post
For 4E customers. Wizards will not go back to the freedom of the 3E days.
I agree with you. I think that 3.x is the beginning and the end of the "golden age" of open gaming; I'd be very surprised if, in my lifetime, we ever experience anything else like it.

NOTE: i'm specifically referring to the openness of a commercial, corporate-owned, widely recognized game/ruleset. I'm not saying everything about the 3.x era was good, nor should this be taken as a knock to other games/rulesets.

I'm hopeful that paizo's pathfinder RPG gains enough traction to satisfy their company and their fans/customers.

I'm also hopeful that green ronin's mutants & masterminds stays around for many years to come, even though I haven't gotten into it yet.

Ditto on similar games like conan 2E, spycraft 2.0, true20, etc...

Truly, the OGL was like fire from prometheus for gamers, IMO; companies just need to continue to use it.

May the fire never go out; long live prometheus!



Oh, and I don't think that wotc is "bad" or "evil" for closing the two sites mentioned; it seems clear to me they were using wotc's IP without permission in a NOT-personal use way [distribution]. It sucks they closed though.

I thought about this a few days ago in a different way:
What if I owned the rights and stuff to the monopoly board game. What if it didn't come with little property cards, but instead I had put the relevant information in the rules manual, with the clear permission "hey kids! write the property rules down on index cards [for personal use only]! It makes the game easier to play!", and people did that? Cool; makes the game easier to play, IMO.

Then, what if people started distributing these homemade cards? How would I feel about this? My customers still need to buy the game to play, but others are copying word for word from my instruction manual to make these cards. I may ask them nicely to stop; I would try to find hard numbers to see if it positively affected my sales both ways [letting this continue VS. having them stop] before I did anything, though. I'd probably allow it to continue for, oh...maybe six months or so while I continue to collect data to determine the most profitable course of action.

Finally, what if I, the owner of monopoly, started marketing "property cards" for use with monopoly? Now, how would I feel about people copying word for word from my instruction manual [even though they're giving the cards away for free]? At this point, I would be willing to do more than just politely ask to stop. I'd be okay with "blank property cards" though. Just don't copy out of my copyrighten [copyrighted?] instruction manual. I'd also kick myself in the butt for not marketing the cards sooner, and hire some more people for R&D to look into what other stuff I could make as accessories for my game; themed boards, special play pieces, add on "chance" cards, etc. I may even get some of the people who made good quality free cards on my payroll to put their constructive energies to use on making me more money. They obviously enjoy my game, and saw something I didn't. Better they work for me than a competitor.

That is what i'd do if I was trying to sell a game and it's accessories; YMMV, etc.
 

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DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
I agree with you. I think that 3.x is the beginning and the end of the "golden age" of open gaming; I'd be very surprised if, in my lifetime, we ever experience anything else like it.

I'm just glad it happened during a time that I could afford to buy so much of it. I have products that WotC wouldn't make - Castle Whiterock, Rappan Athuk Reloaded, Ptolus. WotC may not have felt like Open Gaming was best for them, but as a consumer, it was (and remains) gold for me.
 

jephlewis

First Post
I'm just glad it happened during a time that I could afford to buy so much of it. I have products that WotC wouldn't make - Castle Whiterock, Rappan Athuk Reloaded, Ptolus. WotC may not have felt like Open Gaming was best for them, but as a consumer, it was (and remains) gold for me.
You and me both!
I think a lot of good product came out of open gaming, and hope that continues through the 3pps.

Who knows, maybe we'll get some more awesometastic stuff at some point?
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Really?

Do you know for a fact that this is not within fair use in Italy?

They included most of the text of the powers from PH. So how much can you include? One power? Two? Three? Had the PH been a book of food recipes, you could certainly include a lot of those recipes (as food recipes are not covered by copyright). Is the description of a power that much different from a food recipe? Do we know for sure where to draw the line?

Blatantly infringing, you said? (actually, you didn't, but I'll assume you meant that.) You're sure they didn't assume that the infringement was so minor, their sites did more help than harm?

Reproducing two-thirds of the content of a $30 book and distributing that content is not fair use in Italy or anywhere else.
 


StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer
For 4E customers. Wizards will not go back to the freedom of the 3E days.

I haven't checked, but is Ema's down completely, or just the 4E parts?

Cause as you say, the freedom's gone for you 4E guys, but me? I still want my freely available resources, darn it! :)

It would really suck if sites I use more often, like crystalkeep got shut down completely because they tried to put up 4e stuff. Not that I'm sure what crystalkeep does is legal by the OGL, either. Fortunately if it's not, WotC probably doesn't care anymore.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
According to the discussion in the General forums, Ema's is down completely. The issue is not quite certain, but it sounds like a lot of it had to do with Ema's use of trademarked logos, including for 3e sheets. I don't know if what crystalkeep does is exactly kosher (it certaiiinlyy falls outside the OGL) or follows the "can't copyright game rules" route. Crystalkeep does seem to use similarly trademarked logos, but only at the top of the web page AFAICT.
 


Yair

Community Supporter
Are these really C&D letters from lawyers threatening legal action, or just letters from WotC asking the sites not to do what they're doing?

A company that runs to the law to deal with its fans instead of at least trying to work with them is not a company I'd like to work with, or be a fan of. But these days I'm not a fan of WotC anyways.
 

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