D&D 5E Beguiling Influence mod: advantage instead of proficiency?

Frankie1969

Adventurer

• Aug 1, 2015

• #1

Question in the title. If Beguiling Influence granted advantage on Deception & Persuasion checks instead of proficiency, would that be:

• a good fix for a weak invocation?
• verging on dangerously effective?
• flat-out brokenly overpowered?

Mathematically, advantage + 5 cha + 4 proficiency lets you hit DC 20 75% of the time, vs 50% without advantage.

 

Last edited: Dec 15, 2018

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transtemporal

Explorer

• Aug 2, 2015

• #2

Its powerful at low level and crappy at high level. Personally, I'd much rather have proficiency because I can still get advantage from another source. On the other hand, no one will ever choose that ability so it's a moot point.

 

JackOfAllTirades

Explorer

• Aug 2, 2015

• #3

I guess I'm no one then.

For characters/campaigns where the emphasis is on RP, it's a viable choice. But a Warlock who's seriously interested in being a "face" character (not unusual due to their Charisma) would probably rather have proficiency in those skills. If not from the Invocation, then from race, background or class selection - there are lots of ways to acquire proficiency in Deception and Persuasion. There are also lots of ways to get advantage on CHA checks with those skills. I'd be inclined to leave the Invocation as written.

 

transtemporal

Explorer

• Aug 2, 2015

• #4

JackOfAllTirades said:

For characters/campaigns where the emphasis is on RP, it's a viable choice.

Click to expand...

In actual RP-focussed campaigns I've played in, we generally didn't roll this stuff anyway. We RPed it and the DM adjudicated our success (or not) based on our line of reasoning.

I once played in a (3e) campaign where the DM was willing to let important social interactions go on the roll of a dice, and it was ridiculous.

"I get 53. I convince the King to give us his army."

 

Dragonsbane

Proud Grognard

• Aug 2, 2015

• #5

Huh. We have a RP-focused game, and we ALWAYS use CHA rolls and skills to determine a general direction of the RP and then actually RP the scene that way, well . . the second half of it anyhow. Don't those skills make a difference? Especially in a RP game.

 

L

Leugren

First Post

• Aug 2, 2015

• #6

My Halfling Rogue 3 / Warlock 2 chose Beguiling Influence for the extra skill proficiencies. There were a couple of skills that he absolutely needed in order to remain consistent with the background story and character concept I had crafted for him. Unfortunately, he just didn't have enough proficiency slots. I was about to scrap the whole character concept until I spotted the Beguiling Influence eldritch invocation. It literally saved this character from the scrap heap! I am a veteran player who places story above all.

 

DEFCON 1

Legend

Supporter

• Aug 2, 2015

• #7

In one of my games the Warlock player chose Beguiling Influence as well.

Truth be told, rather than Advantage, I'd perhaps suggest giving proficiency to Deception and Persuasion if the character doesn't already have the skills when they select it, or Expertise in one/both of them if the character already does. That seems to be a better boon, plus it can put a Face warlock on equal footing to a Face rogue and bard.

 

M

Mephista

Adventurer

• Aug 2, 2015

• #8

transtemporal said:

Its powerful at low level and crappy at high level. Personally, I'd much rather have proficiency because I can still get advantage from another source. On the other hand, no one will ever choose that ability so it's a moot point.

Click to expand...

I take it. Getting stealth and acrobatics from my background, Arcane knowledge and Investigate skills from warlock, perception and intimidate from being half-elf, and persuasion and bluff from the Invocation.

 

JackOfAllTirades

Explorer

• Aug 2, 2015

• #9

transtemporal said:

In actual RP-focussed campaigns I've played in, we generally didn't roll this stuff anyway. We RPed it and the DM adjudicated our success (or not) based on our line of reasoning.

I once played in a (3e) campaign where the DM was willing to let important social interactions go on the roll of a dice, and it was ridiculous.

"I get 53. I convince the King to give us his army."

Click to expand...

Just because you once had a terrible GM doesn't mean there's no place for social/RP skills in D&D. Not everyone shares your play style, let alone his.

 

G

Gadget

Adventurer

• Aug 3, 2015

• #10

transtemporal said:

In actual RP-focussed campaigns I've played in, we generally didn't roll this stuff anyway. We RPed it and the DM adjudicated our success (or not) based on our line of reasoning.

I once played in a (3e) campaign where the DM was willing to let important social interactions go on the roll of a dice, and it was ridiculous.

"I get 53. I convince the King to give us his army."

Click to expand...

I agree. I once played in a combat focused game that let combats go by the roll of the dice, and it was ridiculous.

"I get a 53. I decapitate the Tarrasque."