Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
THE KING OF SMACK.
Hey, Frenzied Berserker, you want a piece of this?
Fixed versions of the build - edited 6/06/2004
Here are some fixed versions of the build:
-Race: Elan (half-dragon, among others, also works)
-Damage scaling (per claw): 5d6 base for medium-size claws
-6d6 improved natural attack
-8d6 expansion (+1 size category)
-12d6 expansion (+2 size categories)
-16d6 morphic weapons (if warshaper is included)
-24d6?? if the ring that improves natural attacks from Dragon Mag is included
-32d6?? if you metamorphose into a larger size (ie, firbolg)
Psywar20 build (simplest)
Feats
1 Overchannel
1 Talented
2 Dodge
3 Combat Expertise
5 Karmic Strike
6 Improved Natural Attack (claw)
8 Combat Reflexes
9 Metamorphic Transfer
11 Expanded Knowledge or free feat
12 Weapon Focus (claw)
14 Rapidstrike (claw)
15 Improved Critical (claw)
17 Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis)
18 Expanded Knowledge or free feat
20 Improved Rapidstrike (claw)
Take a level of warshaper at level 21, then continue with epic Psychic Warrior.
Psychic Warrior (Psw) + Illithid Slayer (IS) + Warshaper (Wsh) Build (quickest to improved rapidstrike)
1 Psw1 Track, Overchannel
2 Psw2 Talented
3 Psw3 Combat Expertise
4 Psw4
5 Psw5 Dodge
6 Psw6 Improved Natural Attack (claw)
7 Psw7
8 Psw8 Metamorphic Transfer
9 IS1* Karmic Strike
10 IS2
11 IS3
12 IS4 Rapidstrike (claw)
13 IS5
14 IS6
15 IS7 Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis)
16 IS8
17 IS9
18 IS10 Improved Rapidstrike (claw)
19 Wsh1** Morphic Immunities, Morphic Weapons
20 Wsh2 Morphic Body
Ranger (Rgr) + Psion [Egoist] (Ego) + Warshaper (Wsh) Build (most powerful in the long run IMO)
1 Rgr1 Track, Overchannel
2 Ego1 Dodge
3 Ego2 Combat Expertise
4 Ego3
5 Ego4
6 Ego5 Expanded Knowledge (Claws of the Beast), Karmic Strike
7 Ego6
8 IS1
9 IS2 Improved Natural Attack (claw)
10 IS3
11 IS4
12 IS5 Expanded Knowledge (Claws of the Vampire)
13 IS6
14 IS7
15 IS8 Rapidstrike (claw)
16 IS9
17 IS10
18 Ego7 Metamorphic Transfer
19 Ego8
20 Wsh1
21 ??? Improved Rapidstrike (claw)
If you're expecting to hit epic levels, you can go Wsh3 pre-epic to get the +16 BAB and then continue with Egoist levels.
Note that this final build gives access to 9th level psionic powers. The feat Epic Expanded Knowledge is your friend.
----original post----
I didn't do much with 3.0 psionics, but I am very pleased with the XPH. I admit I don't have a good frame of reference to understand those that claim the XPH Psychic Warrior has been horribly nerfed because I don't know what the original one was like. I do think, however, that the new Psywar can hang just fine in an adventuring party. I do agree with those that think the Elan is undercosted at LA+0, however. There are a number of reasons for this, one of which will become apparent below.
The key to the new psywar is careful use of the claw powers, IMO. Claws of the Beast and Claws of the Vampire are especially strong. The other claws are neat, but in general, I don't think they are worth spending a round to use. A normal, medium-sized psywar20 can use claws of the beast to do 8d6 damage twice per round (5d6 base, +2 size enhancements from expansion). This is pretty impressive. However, it must be possible to really minmax this, right?
Of course. The two keys to this build are 1) the warshaper PrC and 2) the awesome Rapidstrike feat from Draconomicon. To my knowledge, nobody has attempted to use either of these in a fighting psywar build. Warshaper requires your DM to allow metamorphosis to count for the polymorph requirement of Warshaper, which I think is reasonable. Rapidstrike is normally unavailable to normal characters, but CREATURES OF THE ABERRATION TYPE CAN TAKE IT. (omg) You see, now, why the type-aberration Elan is undercosted at LA+0?
The following build is an attempt at a truly hardcore, minmaxed psychic warrior. I use the Elan race from XPH, which has psionicist as a favored class.
Assumptions made for this build:
25 pt buy (str 14, dex 13, con 14, int 12, wis 14, cha 6, after modifiers)
you can meet and kill an illithid by level 8
your DM lets metamorphosis count as the "polymorph" requirement for Warshaper. (reasonable IMO)
Original Psychic Warrior (Psw) + Illithid Slayer (IS) + Warshaper (Wsh) Build
1 Psw1 Improved Natural Attack (claw), Overchannel
2 Psw2 Bonus Feat
3 Psw3 Combat Reflexes
4 Psw4
5 Psw5 Dodge
6 Psw6 WF (claw)
7 Psw7
8 Psw8 Metamorphic Transfer
9 IS1* Karmic Strike
10 IS2
11 IS3
12 IS4 Rapidstrike (claw)
13 IS5
14 IS6
15 IS7 Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis)
16 IS8
17 IS9
18 IS10 Improved Rapidstrike (claw)
19 Wsh1 Morphic Immunities, Morphic Weapons
20 Wsh2 Morphic Body
***Note that I included considered Psionic Meditation in the build even though there isn't any feat that uses psionic focus. You can easily replace this feat with another feat like Psicrystal Affinity.
An alternate build uses Ranger1/Egoist6/IS10/Wsh1/PrC2, where PrC is anything that grants manifester levels. I haven't fully thought this build out, though, and have a feeling there might not be enough feats (you need to use expanded knowledge to get claws of the beast and vampire, but otherwise the build is strong... many more PSPs to work with).
WF (claw) at level 6 with any other feat you like, such as a metapsionic feat or other combat feat, that does require psionic meditation.
What you do with Psimed/WF doesn't really matter to the build - use these feats to tailor your character to your tastes.
Other useful feats: WF (claw), improved crit (claw), mage slayer, sidestep (if you can meet the tumble requirements), expanded knowledge (schism, teleport, any energy power), psionic fist (although I don't think +2d6 once/round is worth it when you are already doing so much damage), unavoidable power (this is more useful than psifist), extend power (never worry about claws or armor turning off), quicken power (if you want to use a lot of claws), talented, up the walls (this is just cool).
As for general combat feats, I feel that power attack is fairly useless since you are already doing so much damage. Cleave could be useful, but with 6 attacks/round, I don't think it's necessary, and definitely not worth the wasted feat in power attack. Important powers: claws of the beast, claws of the vampire, vigor, inertial armor, biofeedback, hustle, form of doom, bite of the wolf, any healing power, any movement power.
Analysis
--------
This character finishes with a base attack of +18 and a manifester level of 17. With overchannel you get to 20. This is enough to get you to 5d6 claws, attacking at +18/+18. Now, add in expansion +2 (6d6, 8d6) and morphic weapons (12d6). Then add in rapidstrike and improved rapidstrike: 6 claws at 12d6 each, +18/+18/+13/+8/+8/+8. Rapidstrike gives you 1 extra natural attack at -5, improved rapidstrike (my interpretation) gives you up to 3 more, each at a further -5. Now add in claws of the vampire, and you have...
THE KING OF SMACK.
Capable of dishing out 72d6 in a single round, and healing half of that back. Use karmic strike with impunity because you are healing 6d6 hp for each hit you score, further cranking up your damage total.
Further abuse: I heard there is an item that increases your natural attacks one step. I don't know what 12d6 increases to, but I imagine it will make your DM cry. Add in an amulet of natural attacks to get whatever additional bonuses you want (+s to hit, energy damage, keen, etc... saves you rounds and PSPs otherwise spent manifesting additional claw powers). To borrow from CompleteSatori's FB build, take an item of sadism to crank your luck bonuses through the roof.
Even more abuse: This build takes advantage of every broken trick you can use with the Elan. With aberration+metamorphosis+metamorphic transfer, you can do a lot of other useful things, such as turning into a beholder or a choker... or a SHARN. Sharns are aberrations, and get 2 standard actions and (with hustle) 2 move actions in a round. They also have 9 arms. Now add in Form of Doom, Bite of the Wolf, and Rapidstrike, and you have a WHOLE LOTTA DAMAGE.
Assuming a strength of 33 (14 base, +4 morphic body, +6 item, +4 huge size from expansion, +5 inherent), a total str mod of +11.
13 claws +29/+29/+29/+29/+29/+29/+29/+29/+29/+24/+19/+19/+19 - 12d6+11 (x13), half returned as healing
1 bite +24 - 4d6+4d8+5
4 tentacles +24/+24/+24/+24 - 4d8+5 (x4)
for fullround damage of 156d6+20d8+168 = 804 damage.
Now assume 2 standard actions + 2 move actions = 2 fullround actions.
1608 damage. Now add in sadism... you get the idea.
THE KING OF SMACK.
Even without the Sharn/sadism abuse (which no sane DM would allow), the psiwar is still hitting pretty hard at 12d6 x6. The best thing about the character is that he's an Elan, and consequently extremely hard to kill. This guy is the ultimate in self-reliance, and a DM's nightmare, even without the damage. Even stripped naked in the middle of the desert, he'll survive. That's the beauty of psionics - psionicists don't need any gear, any spell components, or any other crutches. It doesn't matter if the Weave collapses or my god dies - with a thought, I can move mountains, travel through time, and bend the very fabric of reality. I AM a god. Elans don't even need food. He needs 1 round to set up his inertial armor and his claws, and he's ready to rock. Think about this:
* He can't starve to death.
* He's immortal, so he won't die of old age.
* He's only vulnerable for 4 hours a night, and even that is a trance, not sleep.
* Spot and Listen are class skills for the Illithid Slayer, so he is hard to surprise.
* His saves are decent, and he can add +4 on a critical save anytime.
* He's immune to scrying, so consequently almost impossible to ambush.
* He's immune to mind-affecting effects.
* If you want to kill him, you basically have to do it in one round - if you give him an action, he's going to heal all his damage back
with claws of the vampire. The problem is that you have to do a TON of damage. Anything that gets through his base HP and vigor HP can still be soaked with Elan's racial ability. If he has even 1 HP left, he's going to drain 36d6 from somebody next round. I have a mental image of a giant bashing this guy down to 1 hp with a critical hit - and then next round, this dude leaping at the giant, stabbing into his stomach with his claw, and then climbing his way up the giant's body by sinking his claws into the flesh, draining life all the way.
His only real weakness is death-type effects, and Elan's save bonus helps to deal with that. If you have a choice of magical items, get as much stuff as you can to improve defense and mobility - you have plenty of offense with the claws alone. Also get anything you can to increase your PSPs, as they are the core of your strength. This character is easily powerful enough to solo - he can tank, heal himself, and even blast (with expanded knowledge). Stealth can be a problem, but starting with a ranger level helps (but also gives you an XP penalty). If you get caught in an antimagic zone, well, you still have d8 hit dice and +18 attack bonus, so you can pick up any other good weapon and start bashing people with it.
Now who thinks the Frenzied Berserker has anything on this dude?
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I should add that in addition to incredible tanking ability and damage output, this character has a potent selection of defensive, movement, and utility powers that other fighter-types don't have. Just a few worth noting: dimension door (can't be forcecaged), astral caravan, adapt body, psionic scent, etc.
Originally posted by catharz:
I think this should officially count as the first real eXPsiHB Min/Max build. Very nice.
Originally posted by grim_sage:
Love the build, just got the XPH myself and i'm looking forward to more blatant abuse with it
However, there is one problem with the sharn abuse: Sharn have the irritating 'Archetypal Shape' ability, making it impossible to polymorph/shapechange/whatever into a sharn...
Originally posted by pokemaniacbill:
And there was much buttwhupping. Schweet job... 'tis impressively done.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I also noticed one other problem - Form of Doom only works when you're in your natural form. You can't use it when shapechanged or metamorphosed.
Net effect - you lose 7 claw attacks, but that's probably a good thing. You're still making 11 attacks in a round, which is more than enough damage to drop anything but a dragon or an epic monster.
edit - agh! I realized I made a very big mistake. Even though I included Improved Natural Attack in the build, I forgot to count its damage. Damage should be
5d6 base
6d6 expansion+1
8d6 expansion+2
12d6 improved natural attack
???? morphic weapons
So the claw damage is actually something higher than 12d6, although I have no idea what. My guess is 16d6.
Oh well. That's what I get for trying to do this at 4 in the morning.
Originally posted by grim_sage:
16d6 is my guess too... what comes after that should be 24d6, 32d6 and so on, according to my extrapolation of the size increase tables.
Originally posted by irongolem:
Sorry to ask this, But could you list your Source Material for off this?
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Edit: Forget what i said.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
You can't morph into a sharn.
they have a specialk ability called archetipal shape who prevent them to polymorph and PREVENT OTHER TO POLYMORPH INTO THEM.
that said, the psywar, except for the f*****g psionic focus is a real badass.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I suppose if you wanted to really prove yourself completely self-reliant you could try an exalted, saintly build using no items whatsoever....
drop the 2 levels of Warshaper for +2LA Saint ( yeah, you lose some nice immunities but you get a stack of stuff in return, including WIS to AC, an extra 1d6 dam per hit versus evil creatures - which is also dealt when they hit you, ho ,ho, - DR, immunities to various energies and fast-healing ( 9 h.p per round ).
With VoPov you also get all those exalted bonuses to your nt. attacks,AC, stats, regeneration and bonus exalted feats ( touch of golden ice and sanctify natural attack seem good for this build ).
Of course, this is only if you want to be truly self-reliant....
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Just one problem with this: Can't use the tentacles and the bite with the claws. Read the last paragraph of the Claws of the Beast power. The claws have a little part at the end that states you can't use'em with any other weapon or natural attack, which seems both kind of limiting, and against the spirit of it.
Originally posted by phaedrusxy:
Very nice. I made a githzerai PsyWarr once using 3.0 rules that relied on the claw powers, and he was alot of fun. This guy makes him look like a chump.
I really like the idea of using Karmic Strike in a build like this. My god that is some nice synergy.
Edit: Hmm... something that would be incredibly nice to combine with all that nasty claw power would be four levels of Teflemmar Shadowlord. I think I'll go out and get the XPHB later, and maybe Complete Warrior and see about coming up with a build based on that.
Originally posted by pascalnz:
ahh but at the end of "form of doom" it says you can use claws of the beast bite of the wolf and brewath of the blackdragon while in that form
Originally posted by keldar:
Very nice build LordShade. I've been kicking around similar thoughts since I saw Claws of the Beast.
A few thoughts on the build.
First, the base build is lacking the Track feat for IS. Either replace Psionic Meditation or grab that Ranger level. I'd recomend having all the prerequisites for IS met by 5th, potentially allowing you early enrance into the PrC. The big advantage to that would allow you to gain PW 8 at a level where you can actually get some milage out of Morphic Transfer.
Since you have no real use for Psionic Meditation, replacing it with Talented is a decent choice. That removes the damage for Overchanneling fully half of your powers (levels 1-3).
At low levels the claws are doing a piddling of damage, even with Improved Natural Attack. Might pay to use a greatsword till 3rd and get INA then.
Metamorphosis has some interesting advantages over using Form of Doom. The now infamous Firbolg makes an excelent choice and bumps you up one more size. Your total effective size should be Firbolg (Large) plus Expansion +2 (Gargantuan) plus Improved Natural Attack +1 (Colosal) plus Morphic Weapons +1 (Colosal +)!! So 5d6 - 6d6- 8d6-12d6- 16d6? - 24d6? 24d6 damage per claw! Ouch! Any large critter will do, not just the Firbolg, and if you can find a Huge critter for 15HD or less, Metamorphosis, unlike Polymorph, will let you use it!
Behold, the Power of Cheese! truely!
*Edit* Well look, right in the XPH a 9HD Huge critter, the Grey Glutton. 29 Str, 9 Dex, 19 Con, not too shabby. One more potental step up in damage!
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I was also looking at the xmen thread just now, and I think tacking the mineral warrior and feral templates onto this build could work very nicely for a wolverine-type character. The DR8/adamantine represents his adamantium skeleton (MW template also says underdark races sometimes force the transformation on unwilling subjects), and feral gives him the other abilities he has. The biggest problem is the -6 int and the +6 str - maybe ask the DM if you can cancel these out. RP-wise, you could say that he used to be a monk or fist of zuoken, turned himself into an elan, and got captured by mind flayers. They turned his skeleton into adamantium (mineral warrior), and he escaped into the underdark, turning feral. If you have feral, you can use overchannel with impunity because of the fast healing 2.
I've been thinking some more about the actual build. You could go
Psywar14/IS5/Wsh1, giving +16 base attack and 18 manifester levels. This build gets you 2 more feats, but at the cost of getting imp rapidstrike much later.
Also
Ranger1/Egoist8/IS10/Wsh1 gives +16 base attack and 17 manifester levels of psion. You have boatloads of PSPs and access to high level powers, so in an absolute sense, this character is much more powerful. The downside is that you are down 1 feat over the base build. You no longer have to buy track and expanded knowledge (metamorphosis), but you burn 2 feats on learning claw powers. With only +16 base attack, you also get Imp Rapidstrike much later. However, I think the tradeoff is probably worth it - many more PSPs and skill points (from starting as ranger).
The downside is that using feral or mineral warrior is probably out with the latter build because of its dependence on Int.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Shade- good to see your still in the business! Just some quick thoughts on your build:
1 Psw1: Overchannel
1 Psw1: Dodge
2 Psw2 : Track
3 Psw3 : Combat Expertise
5 Psw5 : Combat Reflexes
6 Psw6 :Improved Natural Attack (claw),
8 Psw8 :Metamorphic Transfer
9 IS1* : Karmic Strike
12 IS4 :Rapidstrike (claw)
15 IS7 :Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis)
18 IS10 :Improved Rapidstrike (claw)
Overchannel, Talented, Psi meditation in the early game. Track for IS. Combat reflexes to set up for for Karmic strike, followed by rapid strike. Improved Natural attack (when it will be most useful in my opinion), followed by Improved crit to go with your extra claw attacks. I like this build a lot, and it really helps to show that abberation should never make it onto a PC class with such a low level adjustment (in this case none at all). I purposely stayed away from this in my build guide due to Psionics relative unpopularity thanks to stigma left over from the old days, but things like this are a necessity in the playtesting/ min-maxing world. I touched on a similar idea in the compendium with warshaper back in 3.0 days, and there is a conversion for 3.5 as well, with the abberation stuff left out, which I feel won't last too long. Your second take is the one I prefer over this version, and Ironically enough is very similar to a build that I've been playtesting at home lol, thanks to all the controversy about elans. Great work!
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Thanks, I have only my xph with me at the moment, and I couldn't remember!
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Took a look at your PW build guide, WS. Good stuff. A question, though - why don't you like the claw powers? To me, they are the coolest thing about the psywar and that's what motivated me to develop this build in the first place.
I also like your use of Warshaper in your builds - great minds think alike, I guess
edit - I think you forgot to put dodge in the above build. It's a prereq for Karmic Strike, iirc. I'm inclined to drop talented... especially in a build that picks up feral for the fast healing.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Hehe, you're right, I forgot :embarrass . My main dislike of claw powers stems from the fact that I hate to waste time, and as you pointed out most of them are not worth the time. At later levels they might be thanks to Expanded Knowledge-Schism, but that's iffy. I just feel someone who goes in unarmed and doesn't need to worry about dispel, or with a magic weapon is always a few steps ahead of someone using claw powers, that's just me though.
I was always a big fan of the 3.0 Unarmed builds, and claws have usurped their place to a degree :sad: . Keep up the good work though.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Corrected build mistakes in my prior post.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
It's not claws of the beast that irritate so much as the other ones...1min/lvl, 1 rnd lvl, Manifestation time- Standard action. The Claws of the beast work nicely with the Warmind and Improved Natural weapon, but that still leaves the problem of enhancing them. I'm sure you're with me in saying that DM's just don't hand out the things we really want!
The claw issue is my personal opinion though, and I still included some notes for build issues in my compendium regarding them, so it's not like I totally disregard them. I just don't like them!
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Enhancement bonuses would be nice, though, to help you hit and beat damage reduction. But an amulet of natural attacks granting enhancement bonuses is probably the easiest to find, which leaves Claws of the Vampire. IMO Wrathful Healing is way overpowered and I'd probably never allow it into a game I was DMing. Claws of the Vampire, though, I'd allow because their power is balanced by short duration and manifestation time.
So when I say "claw powers are good," I'm really only referring to claws of the beast and claws of the vampire.
edit - so, assuming you get jumped. If high level, you started your claws when you woke up, so you have a base damage of 5d6. INA and morphic weapons are always on, boosting your damage to 8d6. So in an ambush, you are ready to roll attacking at 8d6 6/round. The only buff you really need, then, is claws of the vampire. That costs you 1 round. In a real fight, ambush or not, I probably wouldn't spend more than 1 round buffing. That means things like Expansion and metamorphosis are pretty academic - I'd probably never spend the time to activate them unless I had quicken.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Polymorph Any Object - Firbolg
This will last longer than Metamorphosis, so use Metamorphosis only for forms in which you will use the Su abilities.
Firbolg has 3 advantages: 36 Str, good natural AC, and Large size, which is great with expansion.
Originally posted by phaedrusxy:
Is the XPH OGL material? What did they do with the Persistant Power feat? It used to be too easy to make powers persistant, really.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Originally posted by naramyth:
As an alernate to the builds already posted...
Rgr1/Egoist6/IS2/WS4/IS7.
Your down to 14th level manifester level but gain the rest of the WarShaper Abilities including reach and (expecally) fast healing 2. You lose a bit of damage but with reach you become a tactical fighter and fasthealing makes the damage from overchannel irrelivent.
You become almost truely self-sufficent. the only thing now is magical traps, but that can be bypassed with Demention Door or Ectoplasmic Form.
by the way Lord Shade, excellent work.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
"Do not enter, as you will go totally bonkers if you do."
Originally posted by phoenixinferno:
Masterfully done! Truly a testament the strength of your Min-Max Fu, LordShade
I suppose one of the keys to this build is to take the Rapidstrike/Improved Rapidstrike feat chain and apply it to your psionic claw attacks. However, I'm thinking that a monstrous humanoid with natural attacks, by logical extension, should qualify as well, like a character with the feral template applied...?
Thoughts?
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Zug Zug.
A couple of notes:
"Even more abuse: This build takes advantage of every broken trick you can use with the Elan. With aberration+metamorphosis+metamorphic transfer, you can do a lot of other useful things, such as turning into a beholder or a choker... or a SHARN. Sharns are aberrations, and get 2 standard actions and (with hustle) 2 move actions in a round. They also have 9 arms. Now add in Form of Doom, Bite of the Wolf, and Rapidstrike, and you have a WHOLE LOTTA DAMAGE."
Even if you could change into a Sharn, there is no reason a human couldn't. Aberrations aren't restricted (at least going from memory - they aren't in Polymorph, which is essentially the same).
I saw a psy warrior build using warshaper almost immediately after the XPH came out - I believe it has ultimate grappler in the name. I posted that a Psion 10 / Illithid Slayer 10 would beat the one he posted ;p.
As a DM, I wouldn't let you take INA using Claws of the Beast. If you took it, your fists would do slightly more damage ;p. You can't qualify for feats/etc with temporary powers (look I have Fox's Cunning, I'll take Combat Expertise now).
Also, as already posted, some of what you wanted to do wasn't possible within the rules.
Cheers
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Mal, in 3.5 you are restricted by type with Alter Self, but not with Polymorph, and some people get that confused.
Also, you can, in fact, use a temporary stat boost to qualify for a feat or class ability (as stated in the Main FAQ), you just lose access to it when you no longer have that item/spell. The original example used a Headband of Intelligence as an example.
Now, I agree that a power is not a natural attack, and you should probably not be able to take INA for it, but thats DM's discretion of course.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Would this build work at all if it went straight PsW? I ask because there's a poor player on the general board who needs to beat the MM in alphabetical order with only base classes. And no down time.
Originally posted by irongolem:
Source Material????
Expanded Psionics handbook is one I know!
What other source materials have been used here?
Thanks!
IronGolem!
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Draconomicon for Rapid Strike and Improved Rapid Strike.
Improved Natural Attack... this one's either in the MM or Savage Species I think.
The rest is all Expanded PsiHB.
Originally posted by irongolem:
Borin,
Thank you!
Only one I need to pick up with the SS. Rest I have!
IronGolem
PS. I love this, and plan to employ it in my DM's Campaign..
Originally posted by mean_liar:
The item that increases your size for purposes of damage is the Fanged Ring from Dragon #308. I believe its for unarmed attacks only though - not certain.
I think I might try this one out.
THE KING OF SMACK.
Hey, Frenzied Berserker, you want a piece of this?
Fixed versions of the build - edited 6/06/2004
Here are some fixed versions of the build:
-Race: Elan (half-dragon, among others, also works)
-Damage scaling (per claw): 5d6 base for medium-size claws
-6d6 improved natural attack
-8d6 expansion (+1 size category)
-12d6 expansion (+2 size categories)
-16d6 morphic weapons (if warshaper is included)
-24d6?? if the ring that improves natural attacks from Dragon Mag is included
-32d6?? if you metamorphose into a larger size (ie, firbolg)
Psywar20 build (simplest)
Feats
1 Overchannel
1 Talented
2 Dodge
3 Combat Expertise
5 Karmic Strike
6 Improved Natural Attack (claw)
8 Combat Reflexes
9 Metamorphic Transfer
11 Expanded Knowledge or free feat
12 Weapon Focus (claw)
14 Rapidstrike (claw)
15 Improved Critical (claw)
17 Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis)
18 Expanded Knowledge or free feat
20 Improved Rapidstrike (claw)
Take a level of warshaper at level 21, then continue with epic Psychic Warrior.
Psychic Warrior (Psw) + Illithid Slayer (IS) + Warshaper (Wsh) Build (quickest to improved rapidstrike)
1 Psw1 Track, Overchannel
2 Psw2 Talented
3 Psw3 Combat Expertise
4 Psw4
5 Psw5 Dodge
6 Psw6 Improved Natural Attack (claw)
7 Psw7
8 Psw8 Metamorphic Transfer
9 IS1* Karmic Strike
10 IS2
11 IS3
12 IS4 Rapidstrike (claw)
13 IS5
14 IS6
15 IS7 Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis)
16 IS8
17 IS9
18 IS10 Improved Rapidstrike (claw)
19 Wsh1** Morphic Immunities, Morphic Weapons
20 Wsh2 Morphic Body
Ranger (Rgr) + Psion [Egoist] (Ego) + Warshaper (Wsh) Build (most powerful in the long run IMO)
1 Rgr1 Track, Overchannel
2 Ego1 Dodge
3 Ego2 Combat Expertise
4 Ego3
5 Ego4
6 Ego5 Expanded Knowledge (Claws of the Beast), Karmic Strike
7 Ego6
8 IS1
9 IS2 Improved Natural Attack (claw)
10 IS3
11 IS4
12 IS5 Expanded Knowledge (Claws of the Vampire)
13 IS6
14 IS7
15 IS8 Rapidstrike (claw)
16 IS9
17 IS10
18 Ego7 Metamorphic Transfer
19 Ego8
20 Wsh1
21 ??? Improved Rapidstrike (claw)
If you're expecting to hit epic levels, you can go Wsh3 pre-epic to get the +16 BAB and then continue with Egoist levels.
Note that this final build gives access to 9th level psionic powers. The feat Epic Expanded Knowledge is your friend.
----original post----
I didn't do much with 3.0 psionics, but I am very pleased with the XPH. I admit I don't have a good frame of reference to understand those that claim the XPH Psychic Warrior has been horribly nerfed because I don't know what the original one was like. I do think, however, that the new Psywar can hang just fine in an adventuring party. I do agree with those that think the Elan is undercosted at LA+0, however. There are a number of reasons for this, one of which will become apparent below.
The key to the new psywar is careful use of the claw powers, IMO. Claws of the Beast and Claws of the Vampire are especially strong. The other claws are neat, but in general, I don't think they are worth spending a round to use. A normal, medium-sized psywar20 can use claws of the beast to do 8d6 damage twice per round (5d6 base, +2 size enhancements from expansion). This is pretty impressive. However, it must be possible to really minmax this, right?
Of course. The two keys to this build are 1) the warshaper PrC and 2) the awesome Rapidstrike feat from Draconomicon. To my knowledge, nobody has attempted to use either of these in a fighting psywar build. Warshaper requires your DM to allow metamorphosis to count for the polymorph requirement of Warshaper, which I think is reasonable. Rapidstrike is normally unavailable to normal characters, but CREATURES OF THE ABERRATION TYPE CAN TAKE IT. (omg) You see, now, why the type-aberration Elan is undercosted at LA+0?
The following build is an attempt at a truly hardcore, minmaxed psychic warrior. I use the Elan race from XPH, which has psionicist as a favored class.
Assumptions made for this build:
25 pt buy (str 14, dex 13, con 14, int 12, wis 14, cha 6, after modifiers)
you can meet and kill an illithid by level 8
your DM lets metamorphosis count as the "polymorph" requirement for Warshaper. (reasonable IMO)
Original Psychic Warrior (Psw) + Illithid Slayer (IS) + Warshaper (Wsh) Build
1 Psw1 Improved Natural Attack (claw), Overchannel
2 Psw2 Bonus Feat
3 Psw3 Combat Reflexes
4 Psw4
5 Psw5 Dodge
6 Psw6 WF (claw)
7 Psw7
8 Psw8 Metamorphic Transfer
9 IS1* Karmic Strike
10 IS2
11 IS3
12 IS4 Rapidstrike (claw)
13 IS5
14 IS6
15 IS7 Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis)
16 IS8
17 IS9
18 IS10 Improved Rapidstrike (claw)
19 Wsh1 Morphic Immunities, Morphic Weapons
20 Wsh2 Morphic Body
***Note that I included considered Psionic Meditation in the build even though there isn't any feat that uses psionic focus. You can easily replace this feat with another feat like Psicrystal Affinity.
An alternate build uses Ranger1/Egoist6/IS10/Wsh1/PrC2, where PrC is anything that grants manifester levels. I haven't fully thought this build out, though, and have a feeling there might not be enough feats (you need to use expanded knowledge to get claws of the beast and vampire, but otherwise the build is strong... many more PSPs to work with).
WF (claw) at level 6 with any other feat you like, such as a metapsionic feat or other combat feat, that does require psionic meditation.
What you do with Psimed/WF doesn't really matter to the build - use these feats to tailor your character to your tastes.
Other useful feats: WF (claw), improved crit (claw), mage slayer, sidestep (if you can meet the tumble requirements), expanded knowledge (schism, teleport, any energy power), psionic fist (although I don't think +2d6 once/round is worth it when you are already doing so much damage), unavoidable power (this is more useful than psifist), extend power (never worry about claws or armor turning off), quicken power (if you want to use a lot of claws), talented, up the walls (this is just cool).
As for general combat feats, I feel that power attack is fairly useless since you are already doing so much damage. Cleave could be useful, but with 6 attacks/round, I don't think it's necessary, and definitely not worth the wasted feat in power attack. Important powers: claws of the beast, claws of the vampire, vigor, inertial armor, biofeedback, hustle, form of doom, bite of the wolf, any healing power, any movement power.
Analysis
--------
This character finishes with a base attack of +18 and a manifester level of 17. With overchannel you get to 20. This is enough to get you to 5d6 claws, attacking at +18/+18. Now, add in expansion +2 (6d6, 8d6) and morphic weapons (12d6). Then add in rapidstrike and improved rapidstrike: 6 claws at 12d6 each, +18/+18/+13/+8/+8/+8. Rapidstrike gives you 1 extra natural attack at -5, improved rapidstrike (my interpretation) gives you up to 3 more, each at a further -5. Now add in claws of the vampire, and you have...
THE KING OF SMACK.
Capable of dishing out 72d6 in a single round, and healing half of that back. Use karmic strike with impunity because you are healing 6d6 hp for each hit you score, further cranking up your damage total.
Further abuse: I heard there is an item that increases your natural attacks one step. I don't know what 12d6 increases to, but I imagine it will make your DM cry. Add in an amulet of natural attacks to get whatever additional bonuses you want (+s to hit, energy damage, keen, etc... saves you rounds and PSPs otherwise spent manifesting additional claw powers). To borrow from CompleteSatori's FB build, take an item of sadism to crank your luck bonuses through the roof.
Even more abuse: This build takes advantage of every broken trick you can use with the Elan. With aberration+metamorphosis+metamorphic transfer, you can do a lot of other useful things, such as turning into a beholder or a choker... or a SHARN. Sharns are aberrations, and get 2 standard actions and (with hustle) 2 move actions in a round. They also have 9 arms. Now add in Form of Doom, Bite of the Wolf, and Rapidstrike, and you have a WHOLE LOTTA DAMAGE.
Assuming a strength of 33 (14 base, +4 morphic body, +6 item, +4 huge size from expansion, +5 inherent), a total str mod of +11.
13 claws +29/+29/+29/+29/+29/+29/+29/+29/+29/+24/+19/+19/+19 - 12d6+11 (x13), half returned as healing
1 bite +24 - 4d6+4d8+5
4 tentacles +24/+24/+24/+24 - 4d8+5 (x4)
for fullround damage of 156d6+20d8+168 = 804 damage.
Now assume 2 standard actions + 2 move actions = 2 fullround actions.
1608 damage. Now add in sadism... you get the idea.
THE KING OF SMACK.
Even without the Sharn/sadism abuse (which no sane DM would allow), the psiwar is still hitting pretty hard at 12d6 x6. The best thing about the character is that he's an Elan, and consequently extremely hard to kill. This guy is the ultimate in self-reliance, and a DM's nightmare, even without the damage. Even stripped naked in the middle of the desert, he'll survive. That's the beauty of psionics - psionicists don't need any gear, any spell components, or any other crutches. It doesn't matter if the Weave collapses or my god dies - with a thought, I can move mountains, travel through time, and bend the very fabric of reality. I AM a god. Elans don't even need food. He needs 1 round to set up his inertial armor and his claws, and he's ready to rock. Think about this:
* He can't starve to death.
* He's immortal, so he won't die of old age.
* He's only vulnerable for 4 hours a night, and even that is a trance, not sleep.
* Spot and Listen are class skills for the Illithid Slayer, so he is hard to surprise.
* His saves are decent, and he can add +4 on a critical save anytime.
* He's immune to scrying, so consequently almost impossible to ambush.
* He's immune to mind-affecting effects.
* If you want to kill him, you basically have to do it in one round - if you give him an action, he's going to heal all his damage back
with claws of the vampire. The problem is that you have to do a TON of damage. Anything that gets through his base HP and vigor HP can still be soaked with Elan's racial ability. If he has even 1 HP left, he's going to drain 36d6 from somebody next round. I have a mental image of a giant bashing this guy down to 1 hp with a critical hit - and then next round, this dude leaping at the giant, stabbing into his stomach with his claw, and then climbing his way up the giant's body by sinking his claws into the flesh, draining life all the way.
His only real weakness is death-type effects, and Elan's save bonus helps to deal with that. If you have a choice of magical items, get as much stuff as you can to improve defense and mobility - you have plenty of offense with the claws alone. Also get anything you can to increase your PSPs, as they are the core of your strength. This character is easily powerful enough to solo - he can tank, heal himself, and even blast (with expanded knowledge). Stealth can be a problem, but starting with a ranger level helps (but also gives you an XP penalty). If you get caught in an antimagic zone, well, you still have d8 hit dice and +18 attack bonus, so you can pick up any other good weapon and start bashing people with it.
Now who thinks the Frenzied Berserker has anything on this dude?
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I should add that in addition to incredible tanking ability and damage output, this character has a potent selection of defensive, movement, and utility powers that other fighter-types don't have. Just a few worth noting: dimension door (can't be forcecaged), astral caravan, adapt body, psionic scent, etc.
Originally posted by catharz:
I think this should officially count as the first real eXPsiHB Min/Max build. Very nice.
Originally posted by grim_sage:
Love the build, just got the XPH myself and i'm looking forward to more blatant abuse with it
However, there is one problem with the sharn abuse: Sharn have the irritating 'Archetypal Shape' ability, making it impossible to polymorph/shapechange/whatever into a sharn...
Originally posted by pokemaniacbill:
And there was much buttwhupping. Schweet job... 'tis impressively done.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Thanks for pointing this out. I'm actually glad the sharn abuse doesn't work.. that kind of cheapness is mind-boggling, and thankfully its absence makes other neat (but not broken) metamorphosis tricks more likely to succeed with the DM.Grim Sage said:
I also noticed one other problem - Form of Doom only works when you're in your natural form. You can't use it when shapechanged or metamorphosed.
Net effect - you lose 7 claw attacks, but that's probably a good thing. You're still making 11 attacks in a round, which is more than enough damage to drop anything but a dragon or an epic monster.
edit - agh! I realized I made a very big mistake. Even though I included Improved Natural Attack in the build, I forgot to count its damage. Damage should be
5d6 base
6d6 expansion+1
8d6 expansion+2
12d6 improved natural attack
???? morphic weapons
So the claw damage is actually something higher than 12d6, although I have no idea what. My guess is 16d6.
Oh well. That's what I get for trying to do this at 4 in the morning.
Originally posted by grim_sage:
16d6 is my guess too... what comes after that should be 24d6, 32d6 and so on, according to my extrapolation of the size increase tables.
Originally posted by irongolem:
Sorry to ask this, But could you list your Source Material for off this?
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Edit: Forget what i said.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
You can't morph into a sharn.
they have a specialk ability called archetipal shape who prevent them to polymorph and PREVENT OTHER TO POLYMORPH INTO THEM.
that said, the psywar, except for the f*****g psionic focus is a real badass.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I suppose if you wanted to really prove yourself completely self-reliant you could try an exalted, saintly build using no items whatsoever....
drop the 2 levels of Warshaper for +2LA Saint ( yeah, you lose some nice immunities but you get a stack of stuff in return, including WIS to AC, an extra 1d6 dam per hit versus evil creatures - which is also dealt when they hit you, ho ,ho, - DR, immunities to various energies and fast-healing ( 9 h.p per round ).
With VoPov you also get all those exalted bonuses to your nt. attacks,AC, stats, regeneration and bonus exalted feats ( touch of golden ice and sanctify natural attack seem good for this build ).
Of course, this is only if you want to be truly self-reliant....
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Just one problem with this: Can't use the tentacles and the bite with the claws. Read the last paragraph of the Claws of the Beast power. The claws have a little part at the end that states you can't use'em with any other weapon or natural attack, which seems both kind of limiting, and against the spirit of it.
Originally posted by phaedrusxy:
Very nice. I made a githzerai PsyWarr once using 3.0 rules that relied on the claw powers, and he was alot of fun. This guy makes him look like a chump.
I really like the idea of using Karmic Strike in a build like this. My god that is some nice synergy.Edit: Hmm... something that would be incredibly nice to combine with all that nasty claw power would be four levels of Teflemmar Shadowlord. I think I'll go out and get the XPHB later, and maybe Complete Warrior and see about coming up with a build based on that.
Originally posted by pascalnz:
ahh but at the end of "form of doom" it says you can use claws of the beast bite of the wolf and brewath of the blackdragon while in that form
Originally posted by keldar:
Very nice build LordShade. I've been kicking around similar thoughts since I saw Claws of the Beast.
A few thoughts on the build.
First, the base build is lacking the Track feat for IS. Either replace Psionic Meditation or grab that Ranger level. I'd recomend having all the prerequisites for IS met by 5th, potentially allowing you early enrance into the PrC. The big advantage to that would allow you to gain PW 8 at a level where you can actually get some milage out of Morphic Transfer.
Since you have no real use for Psionic Meditation, replacing it with Talented is a decent choice. That removes the damage for Overchanneling fully half of your powers (levels 1-3).
At low levels the claws are doing a piddling of damage, even with Improved Natural Attack. Might pay to use a greatsword till 3rd and get INA then.
Metamorphosis has some interesting advantages over using Form of Doom. The now infamous Firbolg makes an excelent choice and bumps you up one more size. Your total effective size should be Firbolg (Large) plus Expansion +2 (Gargantuan) plus Improved Natural Attack +1 (Colosal) plus Morphic Weapons +1 (Colosal +)!! So 5d6 - 6d6- 8d6-12d6- 16d6? - 24d6? 24d6 damage per claw! Ouch! Any large critter will do, not just the Firbolg, and if you can find a Huge critter for 15HD or less, Metamorphosis, unlike Polymorph, will let you use it!
Behold, the Power of Cheese! truely!
*Edit* Well look, right in the XPH a 9HD Huge critter, the Grey Glutton. 29 Str, 9 Dex, 19 Con, not too shabby. One more potental step up in damage!
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Ah, good call. I had it in the original writeup, but I started moving some feats around and I somehow came up with an extra feat - I obviously forgot to put Track back in. Ranger level doesn't work, because Elan's FC is Psion, not psywar.Keldar said:
I was also looking at the xmen thread just now, and I think tacking the mineral warrior and feral templates onto this build could work very nicely for a wolverine-type character. The DR8/adamantine represents his adamantium skeleton (MW template also says underdark races sometimes force the transformation on unwilling subjects), and feral gives him the other abilities he has. The biggest problem is the -6 int and the +6 str - maybe ask the DM if you can cancel these out. RP-wise, you could say that he used to be a monk or fist of zuoken, turned himself into an elan, and got captured by mind flayers. They turned his skeleton into adamantium (mineral warrior), and he escaped into the underdark, turning feral. If you have feral, you can use overchannel with impunity because of the fast healing 2.
I've been thinking some more about the actual build. You could go
Psywar14/IS5/Wsh1, giving +16 base attack and 18 manifester levels. This build gets you 2 more feats, but at the cost of getting imp rapidstrike much later.
Also
Ranger1/Egoist8/IS10/Wsh1 gives +16 base attack and 17 manifester levels of psion. You have boatloads of PSPs and access to high level powers, so in an absolute sense, this character is much more powerful. The downside is that you are down 1 feat over the base build. You no longer have to buy track and expanded knowledge (metamorphosis), but you burn 2 feats on learning claw powers. With only +16 base attack, you also get Imp Rapidstrike much later. However, I think the tradeoff is probably worth it - many more PSPs and skill points (from starting as ranger).
The downside is that using feral or mineral warrior is probably out with the latter build because of its dependence on Int.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Shade- good to see your still in the business! Just some quick thoughts on your build:
1 Psw1: Overchannel
1 Psw1: Dodge
2 Psw2 : Track
3 Psw3 : Combat Expertise
5 Psw5 : Combat Reflexes
6 Psw6 :Improved Natural Attack (claw),
8 Psw8 :Metamorphic Transfer
9 IS1* : Karmic Strike
12 IS4 :Rapidstrike (claw)
15 IS7 :Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis)
18 IS10 :Improved Rapidstrike (claw)
Overchannel, Talented, Psi meditation in the early game. Track for IS. Combat reflexes to set up for for Karmic strike, followed by rapid strike. Improved Natural attack (when it will be most useful in my opinion), followed by Improved crit to go with your extra claw attacks. I like this build a lot, and it really helps to show that abberation should never make it onto a PC class with such a low level adjustment (in this case none at all). I purposely stayed away from this in my build guide due to Psionics relative unpopularity thanks to stigma left over from the old days, but things like this are a necessity in the playtesting/ min-maxing world. I touched on a similar idea in the compendium with warshaper back in 3.0 days, and there is a conversion for 3.5 as well, with the abberation stuff left out, which I feel won't last too long. Your second take is the one I prefer over this version, and Ironically enough is very similar to a build that I've been playtesting at home lol, thanks to all the controversy about elans. Great work!
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
It is a real feat in the Draconomicon, but I think the TopicStarter meant its wording is rather vague.WyvernSlayer said:
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Thanks, I have only my xph with me at the moment, and I couldn't remember!
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Took a look at your PW build guide, WS. Good stuff. A question, though - why don't you like the claw powers? To me, they are the coolest thing about the psywar and that's what motivated me to develop this build in the first place.
I also like your use of Warshaper in your builds - great minds think alike, I guess
edit - I think you forgot to put dodge in the above build. It's a prereq for Karmic Strike, iirc. I'm inclined to drop talented... especially in a build that picks up feral for the fast healing.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Hehe, you're right, I forgot :embarrass . My main dislike of claw powers stems from the fact that I hate to waste time, and as you pointed out most of them are not worth the time. At later levels they might be thanks to Expanded Knowledge-Schism, but that's iffy. I just feel someone who goes in unarmed and doesn't need to worry about dispel, or with a magic weapon is always a few steps ahead of someone using claw powers, that's just me though.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
You also forgot Combat Expertise, also a prerequisite for Karmic Strike (from Complete Warrior)LordShade said:
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Corrected build mistakes in my prior post.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I agree, but remember claws of the beast manifest as a swift action and last 1 hr/level. At high levels, just manifest them as soon as you wake up and you're good to go (for 20 hours).WyvernSlayer said:
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
It's not claws of the beast that irritate so much as the other ones...1min/lvl, 1 rnd lvl, Manifestation time- Standard action. The Claws of the beast work nicely with the Warmind and Improved Natural weapon, but that still leaves the problem of enhancing them. I'm sure you're with me in saying that DM's just don't hand out the things we really want!
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Yeah, you are definitely right about that. With the way that the damage stacking works with warshaper and INA, though, I don't think that energy claw or duodimension claw are necessary. You're doing so much damage already.WyvernSlayer said:I'm sure you're with me in saying that DM's just don't hand out the things we really want!
Enhancement bonuses would be nice, though, to help you hit and beat damage reduction. But an amulet of natural attacks granting enhancement bonuses is probably the easiest to find, which leaves Claws of the Vampire. IMO Wrathful Healing is way overpowered and I'd probably never allow it into a game I was DMing. Claws of the Vampire, though, I'd allow because their power is balanced by short duration and manifestation time.
So when I say "claw powers are good," I'm really only referring to claws of the beast and claws of the vampire.
edit - so, assuming you get jumped. If high level, you started your claws when you woke up, so you have a base damage of 5d6. INA and morphic weapons are always on, boosting your damage to 8d6. So in an ambush, you are ready to roll attacking at 8d6 6/round. The only buff you really need, then, is claws of the vampire. That costs you 1 round. In a real fight, ambush or not, I probably wouldn't spend more than 1 round buffing. That means things like Expansion and metamorphosis are pretty academic - I'd probably never spend the time to activate them unless I had quicken.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Polymorph Any Object - Firbolg
This will last longer than Metamorphosis, so use Metamorphosis only for forms in which you will use the Su abilities.
Firbolg has 3 advantages: 36 Str, good natural AC, and Large size, which is great with expansion.
Originally posted by phaedrusxy:
Is the XPH OGL material? What did they do with the Persistant Power feat? It used to be too easy to make powers persistant, really.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Nope, not in the XPH. A conversion is easy enough. Multiply by two and subtract two, which would leave it at 10 power points. Which means that a level 20 psion with the overchannel feat could apply persistant spell to level 7 powers, so I can understand why they chose not to use it.PhaedrusXY said:
Originally posted by naramyth:
As an alernate to the builds already posted...
Rgr1/Egoist6/IS2/WS4/IS7.
Your down to 14th level manifester level but gain the rest of the WarShaper Abilities including reach and (expecally) fast healing 2. You lose a bit of damage but with reach you become a tactical fighter and fasthealing makes the damage from overchannel irrelivent.
You become almost truely self-sufficent. the only thing now is magical traps, but that can be bypassed with Demention Door or Ectoplasmic Form.
by the way Lord Shade, excellent work.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Whoa, someone better label THAT door!
"Do not enter, as you will go totally bonkers if you do."
Originally posted by phoenixinferno:
Masterfully done! Truly a testament the strength of your Min-Max Fu, LordShade
I suppose one of the keys to this build is to take the Rapidstrike/Improved Rapidstrike feat chain and apply it to your psionic claw attacks. However, I'm thinking that a monstrous humanoid with natural attacks, by logical extension, should qualify as well, like a character with the feral template applied...?
Thoughts?
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
I don't remember if monstrous humanoids can take the feat, but it definitely was originally intended for monsters. As an aside, though, I should mention that Elan is probably one of the best races for combat-minded druids now. The damage soaking is useless with 2 psps, but the save bonus, less sleep, infinite lifespan and survival without food and water are still very powerful abilities. Add rapidstrike to the mix, and that's probably better than taking dwarf or gnome.PhoenixInferno said:
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Zug Zug.
A couple of notes:
"Even more abuse: This build takes advantage of every broken trick you can use with the Elan. With aberration+metamorphosis+metamorphic transfer, you can do a lot of other useful things, such as turning into a beholder or a choker... or a SHARN. Sharns are aberrations, and get 2 standard actions and (with hustle) 2 move actions in a round. They also have 9 arms. Now add in Form of Doom, Bite of the Wolf, and Rapidstrike, and you have a WHOLE LOTTA DAMAGE."
Even if you could change into a Sharn, there is no reason a human couldn't. Aberrations aren't restricted (at least going from memory - they aren't in Polymorph, which is essentially the same).
I saw a psy warrior build using warshaper almost immediately after the XPH came out - I believe it has ultimate grappler in the name. I posted that a Psion 10 / Illithid Slayer 10 would beat the one he posted ;p.
As a DM, I wouldn't let you take INA using Claws of the Beast. If you took it, your fists would do slightly more damage ;p. You can't qualify for feats/etc with temporary powers (look I have Fox's Cunning, I'll take Combat Expertise now).
Also, as already posted, some of what you wanted to do wasn't possible within the rules.
Cheers
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Mal, in 3.5 you are restricted by type with Alter Self, but not with Polymorph, and some people get that confused.
Also, you can, in fact, use a temporary stat boost to qualify for a feat or class ability (as stated in the Main FAQ), you just lose access to it when you no longer have that item/spell. The original example used a Headband of Intelligence as an example.
Now, I agree that a power is not a natural attack, and you should probably not be able to take INA for it, but thats DM's discretion of course.
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Would this build work at all if it went straight PsW? I ask because there's a poor player on the general board who needs to beat the MM in alphabetical order with only base classes. And no down time.
Originally posted by irongolem:
Source Material????
Expanded Psionics handbook is one I know!
What other source materials have been used here?
Thanks!
IronGolem!
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Without downtime, I don't think a psywar could pull off the entire MM. You might try ghost though. They're about impossible to kill and they can posses creatures.Sensei Gith said:
Originally posted by zombiegleemax:
Complete Warrior for Karmic Strike.IronGolem said:Source Material????
Expanded Psionics handbook is one I know!
What other source materials have been used here?
Thanks!
IronGolem!
Draconomicon for Rapid Strike and Improved Rapid Strike.
Improved Natural Attack... this one's either in the MM or Savage Species I think.
The rest is all Expanded PsiHB.
Originally posted by irongolem:
Borin,
Thank you!
IronGolem
PS. I love this, and plan to employ it in my DM's Campaign..
Originally posted by mean_liar:
The item that increases your size for purposes of damage is the Fanged Ring from Dragon #308. I believe its for unarmed attacks only though - not certain.
I think I might try this one out.
