5E Improvised actions in combat - Page 9

Poll: Do you like improvised actions in combat?

Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 97
  1. #81
    Member
    The Grand Druid (Lvl 20)



    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    4,022
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCosmicKid View Post
    Like I said, I think we're on the same page about the lack of realism in these rules. I'm just saying that actively moving further from realism for no perceptible reason doesn't seem like the greatest idea to me. Why would you want to add this extra clause about ignoring small fall distances? What does it add in exchange for the extra complexity?
    Primarily, for me, it adds fantasy realism and fun. The idea that a giant is going to normally take serious damage from falling the length of its body just feels wrong to me. I want my giants and other fantasy monsters to move and act has if they are nearly perfectly scaled up humans.

    I guess the other way to solve this would be to give the giant a realistic amount hit points so that the falling damage would be trivial. Of courese what is that? A human as a huge range of hp. A giant could realistically range from 270 hp to 5400 hp. No, I think it is better and more phone to provide relief in the very situational falling rules.

  2. #82
    Member
    Enchanter (Lvl 12)



    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    1,672
    Kudos to Pakriti for posting his honest preference! I'll admit, though, that I love improvised actions. I want to encourage my players to think about the situation in non-game terms, so I'm much happier when they think about things like "throw the chair in his way, up-end the table, and take cover behind the table" rather than "move from this square to this square, careful to avoid opportunity attacks, and take the Dodge action."

    Combat should be messy and chaotic, imo, and improvisation helps capture that.
    XP MechaPilot, alienux, Lanefan, TheCosmicKid, uzirath and 1 others gave XP for this post

  3. #83
    Member
    Novice (Lvl 1)



    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    10
    My very favorite and memorable battles were from improvised actions in combat. Tons of great stories. I value creativity far more than rules based slugfests but that's just me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #84
    Member
    Hydra (Lvl 25)



    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmoe View Post
    Kudos to Pakriti for posting his honest preference!
    Indeed. And I'm glad the thread's been civil.

    I asked earlier, Prakriti, how it felt to be the only one of 17 people to vote "no." You're not alone anymore, but it is a small minority. I'm wondering: Are you're surprised by how small that minority is, or were you expecting it to be even smaller?

  5. #85
    Member
    Hydra (Lvl 25)



    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    4,830
    And the mention I should have included: @Prakriti

  6. #86
    Member
    Greater Elemental (Lvl 23)

    the Jester's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Shingletown, CA 96088
    Posts
    22,885
    It's a roleplaying game. Let's pretend with dice. There's no real reason you shouldn't be able to try anything reasonable, even if it doesn't fit nicely under the listed actions.
    XP Barolo gave XP for this post

  7. #87
    Member
    Thaumaturgist (Lvl 9)



    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by the Jester View Post
    It's a roleplaying game. Let's pretend with dice. There's no real reason you shouldn't be able to try anything reasonable, even if it doesn't fit nicely under the listed actions.
    This, a thousandfold.

  8. #88
    Member
    Defender (Lvl 8)



    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Buenos Aires
    Posts
    305
    BEHOLD THE MIGHTY THREAD NECROMANCER!

    I, both as a DM and as a player, enjoy very much improvised actions, and I've come up with a solution for adjudicating "tricky" actions, using base attacks as a standard. An improvisation has a usefulness factor: sometimes, the effects are greater than an attack's; sometimes, the effects are lesser and predictable.
    1- increased effects are major advantages in battle, so they have disadvantage on the skill check needed to succeed, or come with a cost. For example, immobilizing a foe's arm (thus impeding it to attack with said hand) requires a Grapple with disadvantage. Or two successive grapples.
    2- Small effects have little impact on the game, but they are like small stings in a fight. They are handled with advantage, or as a bonus action. One example is a "careful attack": you attack with advantage, but you don't add your Stat modifier to the damage done. Useful for taking down heavily armored enemies, not so much for low armor but high hit points.
    3- Tradeoffs when an action has a fair tradeoff with an attack (such as blinding an enemy with a puff of pepper) you expend an appropriate action, replacing your base attack and use a skill or grant a Saving Throw.
    4- Kairˇs, or opportunity in ancient greek: the same as above, but with a greater effect/without disadvantage/better action economy. It is a one-shot, triggered by specific circumstances.

    I, as a DM, also allow to make "strong attacks" and "Careful attacks" as variations. A Strong attack doubles the damage dice, but hits at disadvantage. "Careful attacks", as I said above, have advantage to hit, but don't add any modifiers to the damage roll. Until now, it works beautifully.

    A list of my impros as a strong fighter:
    a) Grapple, and then bash the head of the opponent against a wall/floor to stun.
    b) Shove and then grapple the mouth of a caster to silence it (with disadvantage: I killed a high priest this way)
    c) Throwing very big rocks against my enemies from higher ground.
    d) Using caltrops or fire, and then shove my enemies against it.
    e) Setting spider webs on fire.
    f) Shoving an enemy against another to trip them both.
    g) Goring enemies, and then intimidate the ones alive screaming at them.
    h) Very close quarters, using a dagger as my weapon, to grant disadvantage to my enemies.
    i) Sand to the eyes.
    j) Kicking the kneecaps (a disarmed attack that grants a Con save or halves the speed of my enemy).
    k) Forming a shield wall with my companions/hirelings.
    l) attacking the hands of the enemies to impede them casting/using weapons.
    m) Using smoke to provoke coughing and impede vision.
    ...etc.

    And then the rest of the tricks of a savy fighter, like disarming; being prone and seek cover to evade projectiles; attacking with a lance from horseback (120 feet every round, more than enough to attack with reach and then retire to safety without disengage), attacking with a bow from horseback; trampling enemies with my warhorse, fight in the bushes; grapple people and drowing them with only my movement; grappling and then throw people from very high grounds; grapple then stomping people against stakes, spikes or anything pointy; set things on fire with oil and torches; etc.

    There is so much you can do within the rules that only saying "I attack" is boring. Of course, a fair share of my combat time is expended by making attacks (although I've given a lot of mileage to my Shield Master feat... so much GREATNESS can be done by having advantage on most of your attacks, specially if your companion is a dual-wielder champion and he crits half of the time), but at least half of it I seek any advantage I could take.
    XP Tallifer gave XP for this post

  9. #89
    Member
    The Grand Druid (Lvl 20)



    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    4,062
    it depends on the nature and intent of improvised actions...

    Case 1 - seen often by "those players" - you describe something not explicitly covered in the rule and want it ruled to be massively more than any normal acton would be. "sand in eyes" = auto-blind. "drop rock from above - crush skull. practically any nuance - called shot to the auto-win.

    Those dont get much out of me. Especially since most of the time they do not actually call in any character traits - the goal is to get outside of them or around them.

    i interpret them using the same basic principles of resolution we normally have.
    if armor matters its a to-hit. if brief touch matters its save. if long touch matters its skill checks. etc etc.

    Sand in eyes = HELP action (action, not just one of your extra attacks.)

    Case-2 You describe extra flourish and utilization of scenery and tactical elements that were added to the scene by me, the npcs or by the PCs - go for it. These are the types of things that can gain advantage for you. I myself **love** to insert scenery that you can try and use - and so can "them".

    Fight near the big chair... can i spend half my move and do acrobatics to use the chair as a launching point to flip around and strike him from..." "absolutely! make a check... also of course with the right roll they could possibly turn the cover and acrobatics into an effective "cannot OA me."

    But the big difference between these two types is one is using an intentional step beyond the rules to try and drive a mack truck over a scene while the other is trying to use the stuff inn the scene and character abilities for an added thing that fits with the flow of the scene.

    But the key is, apply the same resolution process for both and it all works out.

  10. #90
    Member
    Lama (Lvl 13)



    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pusan, Korea
    Posts
    1,534
    Quote Originally Posted by Prakriti View Post
    Then, every now and then, you get a player who says, "Attack, Dodge, Ready, or Search? No thanks. I do something completely different." And just like that, all the air is sucked out of the room, and creativity pushes gaming out of the driver's seat yet again. It's a big let-down to me as a DM.
    My first reaction to this post was head-shaking disbelief: how can anyone not want creativityin a roleplaying game?

    But then I remember how much I loved the clean crisp clockwork of 4th Edition; and how I was occasionally irritated by a fellow player who would always resist doing the most obviously beneficial thing in favour of some imaginative but completely useless fol-de-rol. Or how many games I have played in where the cleric did not heal "because healing is boring, it's what clerics always do, I'm not a healbot" or the wizard would throw himself into melÚe.

    In the end however, I almost enjoy it as a dungeon master when someone livens up an encounter with some creative thinking. Or as a player when someone saves our group by thinking outside the box.

    Name:  Giant eagle.jpg
Views: 82
Size:  108.4 KB

Similar Threads

  1. Improvised Combat
    By Chris_Nightwing in forum *Pathfinder & Starfinder
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: Friday, 23rd March, 2012, 07:49 PM
  2. Combat Actions
    By TeeSeeJay in forum *Pathfinder & Starfinder
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Friday, 21st March, 2003, 12:25 PM
  3. Combat Actions - Partial Actions? Standard Actions?
    By cossakking in forum *Pathfinder & Starfinder
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: Saturday, 20th April, 2002, 01:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •