D&D 5E Points of Light setting and current cross-over strategy: Round peg in the square hole.

Jester David said:

The catch with the Points of Light setting is that it started as not having lore, but every future product added lore. There's a surprising amount of backstory to the world now, it's just hidden in adventures, magazine articles, and race entries. We probably know more about the Points of Light setting than Greyhawk fans knew about that setting prior to 1988.

The PoL setting made sense as a starting point, but setting adventures and accessories in that setting defeated the purpose of a blank slate that Dungeon Masters could make their own.

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Not really because the classics that they are releasing would fit into PoL much better than the Realms and still be a bit of a "blank slate". PoL is no where near as detailed as the Realms. Also, the Realms has ties to one world outside of it's sphere that is known and that is a version of our real world. There has never ever been mention of the other worlds except for that Dragon mag article that talked about Elminster knowing Mordenkainen and Dalamar. No FR products ran away with that so it was never official cannon.

Wizards is really ignoring most of the Realms and using it as it's PoL setting and trying to shoe horn stuff into the setting that doesn't make sense when you know the Realms history.

Corpsetaker said:

My attraction to the Realms is it's consistency and living world vibe.

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The bolded is the exact thing you are currently ranting against.

A world that is alive grows - even in ways that you happen not to like.

What's the point in arguing for something that didn't happen? Are we expecting a time traveler to come around to leap back to 2013 to convince Mike and Company to use the Nentir Vale rather than the Sword Coast?

Seems to me the best use of time would be to say "I think the APs that WotC have released would work and fit better in the Nentir Vale than in the Forgotten Realms. Here's what I would do to accomplish that, and where I would put all of them..."

You know... actually produce something of substance, rather than just bitch.

Jester David said:

The catch with the Points of Light setting is that it started as not having lore, but every future product added lore. There's a surprising amount of backstory to the world now, it's just hidden in adventures, magazine articles, and race entries. We probably know more about the Points of Light setting than Greyhawk fans knew about that setting prior to 1988.

The PoL setting made sense as a starting point, but setting adventures and accessories in that setting defeated the purpose of a blank slate that Dungeon Masters could make their own.

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This is very much true. There is tons of backstory explaining the origins of everything from the gods to the monsters to where each of the external power sources come from (mostly all of them except martial).

I became interested in the Points of Light setting when so I did some digging around the internet and eventually came upon a fan compiled history of the setting. Unfortunately I cannot remember where I stumbled upon the document and it doesn't appear to have an author listed on it so I can't give credit where it's due but I can share it via drop box link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gdpvh222zn8g54l/History of the Nentir Vale.docx?dl=0

Corpsetaker said:

Not really because the classics that they are releasing would fit into PoL much better than the Realms and still be a bit of a "blank slate".

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Well… Storm King's Thunder wouldn't fit because PoL giants are very different, don't have the ordning, and have a different backstory that doesn't include giant gods.
And Princes of the Apocalypse adventure wouldn't fit well either, as the elements overlap more in the PoL cosmology. And the elemental princes didn't exist, they were replaced by the godlike Primordials. Neither did elemental cults, really.
The Tyranny of Dragons adventure would be odd given the Scales of War adventure already covered those story beats, and Tiamat wouldn't need help entering that world, already being a god. It'd also be adding elements (like the Cult of the Dragon) wholesale.
Out of the Abyss makes heavy use of the Realms and Realmslore, including established Underdark locales. It's pretty setting specific.

So, no, I don't think they would fit better in the PoL world. And would require *more* changes to fit that setting, either in the story or the world lore.

Corpsetaker said:

PoL is no where near as detailed as the Realms.

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Yes. True. Not really relevant though...
More details make it easier to write. It much faster to copy details of an established city than create a whole new idea.

Corpsetaker said:

Also, the Realms has ties to one world outside of it's sphere that is known and that is a version of our real world. There has never ever been mention of the other worlds except for that Dragon mag article that talked about Elminster knowing Mordenkainen and Dalamar. No FR products ran away with that so it was never official cannon.

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…
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. But Greenwood did write numerous articles with the three mages that do suggest the multiverse. And there was numerous crossovers between Ravenloft and the Realms in 2e. And the Abyssal Plague story in 4e also crossed over between worlds.
So that's not new.

Corpsetaker said:

Wizards is really ignoring most of the Realms and using it as it's PoL setting and trying to shoe horn stuff into the setting that doesn't make sense when you know the Realms history.

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So… your complaint is that instead of ignoring the established canon of the Realms for their adventures they should ignore the established canon of Nentir Vale/ Nerath?

Jester David said:

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. But Greenwood did write numerous articles with the three mages that do suggest the multiverse.

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He actually outright states that the Forgotten Realms exist in a multi-verse in the original Forgotten Realms boxed set.

Specifically, the Introduction to the DM's Sourcebook of the Realms, which says, "The 'Forgotten Realms' derive their name from the fictitious fact upon which play in my campaign is based: that a multiverse exists, of countless parallel co-existing Prime Material Planes (including the the world presented herein, our own modern "Earth," and any other fantasy settings a DM may wish to incorporate in play), all related to the Known Planes of Existence presented in the AD&D system."

Corpsetaker said:

Not really because the classics that they are releasing would fit into PoL much better than the Realms and still be a bit of a "blank slate". PoL is no where near as detailed as the Realms. Also, the Realms has ties to one world outside of it's sphere that is known and that is a version of our real world. There has never ever been mention of the other worlds except for that Dragon mag article that talked about Elminster knowing Mordenkainen and Dalamar. No FR products ran away with that so it was never official cannon.



Wizards is really ignoring most of the Realms and using it as it's PoL setting and trying to shoe horn stuff into the setting that doesn't make sense when you know the Realms history.

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So, because the world is less rich and developed, and fewer people know it, it would be a superior default setting to tie things into...?

The multiverse connections thru Planescape and Spelljammer seem well established, and Perkins (the current Godfather of the Realms) has states that the Wizards Three articles, written by Greenwood himself, are 100% canonical.

MonkeezOnFire said:

This is very much true. There is tons of backstory explaining the origins of everything from the gods to the monsters to where each of the external power sources come from (mostly all of them except martial).

I became interested in the Points of Light setting when so I did some digging around the internet and eventually came upon a fan compiled history of the setting. Unfortunately I cannot remember where I stumbled upon the document and it doesn't appear to have an author listed on it so I can't give credit where it's due but I can share it via drop box link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gdpvh222zn8g54l/History of the Nentir Vale.docx?dl=0

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Thank you for sharing this link, it's a great find. I'm not about to run 4e any time soon, but it is certainly interesting to be able to browse a professionally made setting that incorporates many elements from prior D&D lore, and adds some new ones that have continued into 5e.

Jester David said:

Well… Storm King's Thunder wouldn't fit because PoL giants are very different, don't have the ordning, and have a different backstory that doesn't include giant gods.
And Princes of the Apocalypse adventure wouldn't fit well either, as the elements overlap more in the PoL cosmology. And the elemental princes didn't exist, they were replaced by the godlike Primordials. Neither did elemental cults, really.
The Tyranny of Dragons adventure would be odd given the Scales of War adventure already covered those story beats, and Tiamat wouldn't need help entering that world, already being a god. It'd also be adding elements (like the Cult of the Dragon) wholesale.
Out of the Abyss makes heavy use of the Realms and Realmslore, including established Underdark locales. It's pretty setting specific.

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Came here to pretty much say this. I loved the Points of Light setting, but it would not work as well as the Forgotten Realms does for the stuff they've written so far.

But then again, [MENTION=6776548]Corpsetaker[/MENTION], if you enjoy Points of light, you can definitely change the adventures to fit that setting. I bet if you started a new thread with that very goal, plenty of people here would help -- including me. (Again, I totally loved Nentir Vale.)

Jester David said:

And Princes of the Apocalypse adventure wouldn't fit well either, as the elements overlap more in the PoL cosmology. And the elemental princes didn't exist, they were replaced by the godlike Primordials. Neither did elemental cults, really.

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Huh? The Temple of Elemental Evil - elemental cults par excellence - is discussed in Worlds & Monsters.

Ogremoch and Imix, plus their cultists, are statted in MM3. Yan-C-Bin is statted in one of the magazines - I don't remember which one, but I've used the stats.

In other words, what you say is manifestly mistaken.

And my feeling is that incorporating the other 5e APs - if one felt so inclined - would be quite straightforward.