Question about Temple of the Frog (spoilers)

the Jester

Legend
Hey guys! I recently got a copy of the old module Temple of the Frog, and I noticed something weird in there that I am wondering whether there's any errata or information about it.

Specifically, the cyborgs in the module are listed as having 20 HD, but only 8 hp. Why is this? Is this a misprint? Should it be 80 hps? Is there any official word about this?
 

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grodog

Hero
Bumpity bump... hoping someone has some insight on this. Perhaps [MENTION=1613]grodog[/MENTION] or someone else really old skool?

Hola [MENTION=1210]the Jester[/MENTION]! Which version of the Temple of the Frog are you looking at?---the original one in Blackmoor Supplement 2, or the later module adventures from TSR (DA2 Temple of the Frog) or the d20 version from Zeitgeist Games??

Adding [MENTION=2885]diaglo[/MENTION] for good measure!

Allan.
 

the Jester

Legend
Hola [MENTION=1210]the Jester[/MENTION]! Which version of the Temple of the Frog are you looking at?---the original one in Blackmoor Supplement 2, or the later module adventures from TSR (DA2 Temple of the Frog) or the d20 version from Zeitgeist Games??

Adding [MENTION=2885]diaglo[/MENTION] for good measure!

Allan.

Heyo! Good to see you, grodog!

I've acquired DA2. I've never had the opportunity to read the original version, but would be curious as to what it has to say on the cyborgs.
 

grodog

Hero
Heyo! Good to see you, grodog!

Happy to help!

I've acquired DA2. I've never had the opportunity to read the original version, but would be curious as to what it has to say on the cyborgs.

I didn't find any cyborgs mentioned in the original Blackmoor version of Temple of the Frog, just the two in DA2.

Hey guys! I recently got a copy of the old module Temple of the Frog, and I noticed something weird in there that I am wondering whether there's any errata or information about it.

Specifically, the cyborgs in the module are listed as having 20 HD, but only 8 hp. Why is this? Is this a misprint? Should it be 80 hps? Is there any official word about this?

I don't recall anything official about it, but a quick search of Sage Advice @ http://www.purpleworm.org/content/index.php/research/dragons-sage-advice.html didn't turn up anything useful either. Based on the XP assigned (2000) and other stats, I assume that the 8 HP is the typo, and that the HP should be 90 (4.5 average HP x 20 HD = 90). That doesn't have an 8 in it, but is what I'd do ;)

The 3.x version of Temple of the Frog didn't offer any useful context on cyborgs either.

Sorry, I wish I could've been more help....

Allan.
 

GreyLord

Legend
Happy to help!



I didn't find any cyborgs mentioned in the original Blackmoor version of Temple of the Frog, just the two in DA2.



I don't recall anything official about it, but a quick search of Sage Advice @ http://www.purpleworm.org/content/index.php/research/dragons-sage-advice.html didn't turn up anything useful either. Based on the XP assigned (2000) and other stats, I assume that the 8 HP is the typo, and that the HP should be 90 (4.5 average HP x 20 HD = 90). That doesn't have an 8 in it, but is what I'd do ;)

The 3.x version of Temple of the Frog didn't offer any useful context on cyborgs either.

Sorry, I wish I could've been more help....

Allan.

I believe that might actually be 80 HP...not 90. The 0 got left off of 80 thus it being 8.

Either that or the 20 was a typo and was just supposed to be 2 instead of 20. (But with the XP being 2000 it's probably more the former, where it's 80 HP with the 0 being left off or somehow disappearing from behind the 8).

Just my guesses.
 

Cleon

Legend
The cyborgs have a full monster entry in DA3 City of the Gods (1987):

Cyborg*
Armor Class: 0/- 1
Hit Dice: 20/22
Move: 120ʹ (80ʹ)
Attacks: 1 fist or weapon
Damage: 3-30 or by weapon
No. Appearing: 1-4 (1-4)
Save As: Fighter 10/16
Morale: 12
Treasure Type: Special
Alignment: Neutral
XP Value: 2,000/2,750

Cyborgs are alien machines built to perform difficult (often suicidal) tasks that are best performed by a human. They appear to be exceptionally tall and well-built male humans, indistinguishable from normal human beings. But their flesh was grown over a duralloy skeleton in big biotanks. And, while all of their organs, except for some sense organs, are tank-grown from cell clones, most have special electrical or computer augmentation (a tiny pacesetter that can be used to push the heart to extreme exertion, for example).

A set of computer chips in the brain accept programming beamed to the cyborg via any standard communications device. Thanks to a special hardware feature, cyborgs will even accept self-destruct programming that stops their heart. All programming must be in a special code. Like the aliens who made them, cyborgs have a mastoid implant that allows them to use the alien communications network at any time.

Cyborgs have infravision at a range of 60 feet and can breathe underwater. They can be harmed only by magic or magic weapons, but are immune to sleep, charm, and hold spells. In addition, experimental Class IV cyborgs have some special characteristics. First, they use the AC, Hit Dice and Save values listed above after the slash; all other cyborgs use the values before the slash. Second, the range and acuity of their vision, smell, and hearing is four times the human norm. As a consequence, they can't be surprised.

Cyborg programming normally prevents them from harming humans or humanoids (including aliens). However, there exist illegal programs that can circumvent the safeguards built into the cyborgs at the factory. Using these, it is possible to modify an existing cyborg so that it becomes a cyborg terminator, a superlative killing machine feared throughout the galaxy. So acute is Riesling's paranoia that he has used bootleg versions of these programs to turn all of Beagle's cyborgs into terminators despite the fact that this act is a Federation capital offense.

Cyborgs always carry 1-4 alien devices (treat as magical treasure).

The adventure also includes statblocks for the Class IV cyborg as follows:

Cyborgs (2): AC -1; HD 22; hp 88 each; #AT 1; D 3-30 (fist) or 6-36 (hand blaster) or special (grenade launcher): MV 120ʹ (80ʹ); Save F16; ML 12; AL N; XP 2,750. These are Class IV terminators. Unlike the crewmen and robots the PCs meet, the cyborgs take no prisoners. They simply kill any unauthorized personnel they encounter.

Here's the Cyborg in DA2 for comparison. Weebak's 20 Hit Dice indicates that "he" is a standard cyborg.

Weewak: AC 0; HD 20; hp 8; MV 120ʹ (80ʹ); #AT 1 fist or weapon; D 3-30 (fist) or 6-36 (hand blaster); Save F10; ML 12; AL N; XP 2,000. Weewak carries a blaster with a spare power pack. He has infravision, and can also breathe underwater. He can be harmed only by magic or magic weapons, but is immune to sleep, charm, control, and hold spells.

Since the Class IV Cyborgs in DA3 have 4 hit points per Hit Die it seems reasonable to presume that so do standard cyborgs, meaning that Weewak's stat block is simply missing a 0 and he should have 80 hit points.

Alternatively, he actually does only have 8 hit points - maybe he's badly damaged and needs high tech science to be repaired? Or if cure spells work on cyborgs, maybe he Weewak doesn't want to go to a cleric as that would expose him as a cyborg?

Being damaged down to 8 hit points might help explain why he thinks the PCs could help him on his mission to destroy the mutineers and all their tech by blowing up the temple. If he can be destroyed by a single blaster hit he'd be reluctant to just charge in and start slaughtering them.

EDIT: I forgot to mention Norn, the other cyborg in DA2 who's guardian Saint Stephen's room. He has identical stats to Weewak.
 
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the Jester

Legend
The cyborgs have a full monster entry in DA3 City of the Gods (1987)...

>snip<

Here's the Cyborg in DA2 for comparison. Weebak's 20 Hit Dice indicates that "he" is a standard cyborg.

Weewak: AC 0; HD 20; hp 8; MV 120ʹ (80ʹ); #AT 1 fist or weapon; D 3-30 (fist) or 6-36 (hand blaster); Save F10; ML 12; AL N; XP 2,000. Weewak carries a blaster with a spare power pack. He has infravision, and can also breathe underwater. He can be harmed only by magic or magic weapons, but is immune to sleep, charm, control, and hold spells.

Since the Class IV Cyborgs in DA3 have 4 hit points per Hit Die it seems reasonable to presume that so do standard cyborgs, meaning that Weewak's stat block is simply missing a 0 and he should have 80 hit points.

Alternatively, he actually does only have 8 hit points - maybe he's badly damaged and needs high tech science to be repaired? Or if cure spells work on cyborgs, maybe he Weewak doesn't want to go to a cleric as that would expose him as a cyborg?

Being damaged down to 8 hit points might help explain why he thinks the PCs could help him on his mission to destroy the mutineers and all their tech by blowing up the temple. If he can be destroyed by a single blaster hit he'd be reluctant to just charge in and start slaughtering them.

EDIT: I forgot to mention Norn, the other cyborg in DA2 who's guardian Saint Stephen's room. He has identical stats to Weewak.

Yep! I'm betting it's a typo and a copy and paste error. Thanks very much for your help. :)
 

Cleon

Legend
Yep! I'm betting it's a typo and a copy and paste error. Thanks very much for your help. :)

Glad to help!

I'm tempted to do a 3.5 conversion of the Cyborgs from DA3. The official version in Return to the Temple of the Frog are woefully weak compared to the original creatures, with 40% of the HD and the inability to kill a warhorse with a single punch.
 

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