Critical Role Critical Role Episode #26 - spoilers!

jgsugden said:

Again, look at the XGtE at the Warlock of the Archfey.

11 HD. 1 6th level spell and 3 5th level slots. Clearly based upon an 11th level Warlock. CR 4. This reflects the modern valuation as applied in a recent book to the specific class in question, rather than the valuation placed at the start of the edition on 'monster' builds for other classes. As we posit that Lorenzo is 9th rather than 11th, CR 3 or 4 would seem to be appropriate. The Warlock of the Fiend has an error on the hit points, but it built off a 17th level warlock spellcaster. It is CR 7. Now, it is possible Lorenzo is 17th level - we saw nothing that ruled this out... but that seems unlikely.

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Lorenzo is likely an oni - a CR 7 creature. The hints to this are compelling.

jgsugden said:

And as for your 'three strong', had Matt known that Not and Keg would be 'offline' for the combat, then you'd build for three PCs... but as far as he knew, he was building for 5. My point is that he built a reasonable, but tough, challenge. With surprise and good tactics, it was very winnable (assuming we have the right power levels for the bad guys in mind).

If they start with a stun, stab, and spell on Lorenzo, he likely never gets off a spell or attack (again, assuming he is ~9th level).

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I actually don't disagree with that - except, I think, as already stated - Lorenzo was a higher CR than you are giving him. Had they been luckier on their rolls and had they been at full strength - well it may have been different. But that's not what happened and they lucky to have escaped as intact as they did.

Mort said:

Lorenzo is likely an oni - a CR 7 creature. The hints to this are compelling.

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The persistent presence of illusions points towards either a 6th level spell slot for perm major image, or unlimited silent image - which matches up with a warlock with Misty Visions. I suppose the bard could have been using all of his spell slots to repeatedly cast silent image.... I guess... but ...

Matt called it arcane energy as well - something that hints at an arcane spellcaster. Nothing dispositive, but a Hexblade with a Glaive for a weapon seems far more likely.

Regardless, if Oni were released today, they'd likely have a lower CR. There is a lot of evidence that many of the monster manual CRs should be revised, but they can't for a variety of reasons (changing the CR of summonable monsters changes a lot of things, etc...).

All that matters: If the PCs used good tactics and had non-disastrous luck, would they have had a very good chance to win? The answer is yes. I'm not saying the players did anything wrong, here - just that Matt didn't either.

TPK would have ruined the storyline for the show. Matt was out to set an example (his NPC even said so). Thought it was handled well, regardless of rulings. Character death is what it is. Sets Loreenzo up as a major antagonist down the line. Totally worth the extra time!

Well, even if it was a "deadly" encounter, even significantly, that wouldn't mean that Matt did anything wrong. In CR Season 1, when the Chroma Conclave attacked all at once, that was an impossible battle. But it was meant to be. That doesn't make it wrong. Having a heavily one-sided encounter isn't a failing of the DM. There were multiple ways that the M9 could have pursued their quarry. Spying on them, sneaking into the camp at night to free the slaves, setting up a distraction, getting more people invested in taking out the slavers, etc. There are more ways to succeed than head-on battle-royale.

MaximusArael020 said:

Well, even if it was a "deadly" encounter, even significantly, that wouldn't mean that Matt did anything wrong. In CR Season 1, when the Chroma Conclave attacked all at once, that was an impossible battle. But it was meant to be. That doesn't make it wrong. Having a heavily one-sided encounter isn't a failing of the DM. There were multiple ways that the M9 could have pursued their quarry. Spying on them, sneaking into the camp at night to free the slaves, setting up a distraction, getting more people invested in taking out the slavers, etc. There are more ways to succeed than head-on battle-royale.

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Absolutely.

Heck, I started a campaign a years back (1st level characters) with a demigod waking up and rampaging through the city. The group had 0% of a head on confrontation. But they recognized that quickly and focused on mitigating the damage (putting out fires etc) , helping herd people out of the way, that sort of thing.

Worked great as a bonding exercise and to immediately show that direct confrontation isn't always the answer.