So THAT's why Regdar gets no love...

[CountPopeula]

I know there are other iconics. It just ticks me off that a developer just HAS to point out that he didn't want the main character to be a white male, and it must really piss him off, as he is still bothered by it. Political correctness gone mad, or racism?

Shouldn't you be calling it "white liberal guilt"?

Far be it for me to put words in the designer's mouths, but it seems like the goal was to make a multi-ethnic, multi-racial group of iconic characters working together and sharing the spotlight, and marketing decreed that there would be a group of multi-ethnic, multi-racial sidekicks to the heroic white tough guy. Sort of a D&D Superfriends.

They already had a fighter, he was a dwarf. They had white males, Jozan and Hennet. Marketing wanted a strong, white male warrior front and center, above the other characters, and that was Redgar, and that's why he's the whipping boy.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Marketing wants a "Big lug with a big sword" on the front cover. This is perfectly legitimate if you think you need to reach back to Conan and Elric or go to the FFVII well for as close as you can get to a Buster Sword in the PHB.

So who do you hand the "Big lug with a big sword," job to, exactly? If you give it to anybody other than the white guy you get accused of racist overtones by depicting "persons of color" as unintelligent / savage / defined by physicality.

Same thing goes for making a certain character "Kenny," by the way. If you put a female character or a "person of color" through all the abuse and mutilation heaped upon Regdar you risk being accused of racial intimidation or misogyny.

If you need a character to be extensively abusive, abused, depraved, or depicted as a "lug" of some sort without much in the way of special enlightenment your go-to-guy is always the random white dude - that's how people play it safe. No one who counts is allowed to be offended so you catch less flack that way.

Fantasy settings are generally well equipped to avoid this trope, though. They've got so many trans-racial options (non-human species) that you really don't need to go there. In 4th Edition they can easily make a Dragonborn be the Conan stand-in or have random Eladrin and Tiefling deaths and not have to worry about racial overtones.

- Marty Lund

Huh. I think back to all of the times where my black and latino friends used to ask me "why do you play that white boy game" and I'd get offended and reply "It's NOT a white boy game. ANYONE can play if they have an imagination (losers...)".

After some of the responses to this thread and the previous art / diversity thread I guess those ignoramuses were right after all.

Who knew? Seriously it's threads like this that make me seriously wonder about my hobby and whether I actually have a place in it.

 

[Henry]

It's amazing what people get worked up over.

Regdar has had a hell of a lot of face-time in the various D&D books, not always getting smashed to bits, either. The PHB2 in 3rd edition has at least two shots I can think of with him in the limelight, or at least front and center. So if someone wants to smash him to bits to prove a point, too, more power to 'em. Even Todek got crunched in a dragon's mouth at least once...

 

[mlund]

Bull. If he'd been East Asian-styled no-one would have made such allegations.

Only if he had an "obviously superior to European blades" sword in his hand, though. Then you'd just get accused of "making D&D too Anime!!!!11111shiftone."

Damned if you do - damned if you don't.

Black, maybe.

Or non-White Hispanic or resembling Native American in some way.

The rest of what you're saying is somewhat correct, except that you seem to think that it's an accident that in an iconic-free edition of the game, the iconic character of the previous game is being killed repeatedly.

Regdar got killed a whole lot in 3rd Edition too, and I really wouldn't call him "the iconic character" of the edition. Frankly I remember a lot more memorable living depictions of Tordek, Gimble, and Liddia than Regdar. The only one that really stuck with me was in the retraining section of the PHBII where he's trying to learn the Spiked Chain. Of course, I was always more partial to Dwarves, Bards, and Rogues in the first place.

- Marty Lund

 

[CountPopeula]

The rest of what you're saying is somewhat correct, except that you seem to think that it's an accident that in an iconic-free edition of the game, the iconic character of the previous game is being killed repeatedly.

This is another really good point, I think he's meant to represent everything "bad" about 3rd edition that's being "killed off" with the new edition. Just my take.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

This is another really good point, I think he's meant to represent everything "bad" about 3rd edition that's being "killed off" with the new edition. Just my take.

That what I was assuming too, though they do appear to be res'ing him in the Rituals Chapter. I mean, maybe the Dark Elves are going to stop them, but maybe we're going everything that was bad about 3E back in future!

Oh reading too much into things, how I love it

Seriously though, love seeing Regdar die, but love seeing all the iconics die, fall off things, catch fire etc. Maybe it's Oppositional Defiant Disorder.

WotC: Here are some heroes for you to love!

Me: They're a bunch of wankers and I hate them all! Except the Gnome Bard.

 

[Plane Sailing]

What are these Dungeon and Dragon PSAs you speak of? I really really hate the iconics, so I am particularly interested to know.

D&D PSAs?

Ah, you'll be wanting the youtube D&D PSA's

If I put the link it will auto-embed it, which I don't want since it isn't exactly grandma-friendly, but if you go to youtube.com and append the following to the domain name

/watch?v=yHl16n7noXs

You'll be able to see it.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Do you want to know the REAL reason Regdar gets no love?

You ought to dig up (contact)'s Liberation of Tehn storyhour.

Just sayin'

 

[lutecius]

I’m not sure I understand how a clearly white/nordic dwarf means more diversity than a human of ambiguous ethnicity.

Saying that dnd races have no identifiable ethnicity seems a bit hasty. Interestingly, the most intolerant and chauvinistic gamers i've met often played dwarves, with an emphasis on the race's already strong celtic or norse feel.

I get that designer wanted iconics to fit favoured classes and that Tordek was visually more striking than Regdar. But the lack of racial diversity seems like a weird reason to hate the character or abuse him in the illustrations.
If the artists had such liberty, why didn’t they just make Regdar look less european, like Lockwood did?

 

[Mad Mac]

Seriously though, love seeing Regdar die, but love seeing all the iconics die, fall off things, catch fire etc. Maybe it's Oppositional Defiant Disorder.

Oh I dunno. I kind of miss having the iconics to kick around. I mean sure, they were all completely lame, but that's what made them so much fun. We could all come together as a community to mock Hennett or talk about how Mialee was the ugliest elf wizard ever conceived, or make Krusk talk in the 3rd person and ponder how Kerwyn was the least popular iconic ever.

Then again, having cool, diverse character designs is better for sparking the imagination, and I never have to fear flipping through an arcane book and running into a full-page Mialee picture in some akward pose some poor artist apparently thought was sexy for someone who didn't look like a bug.


Surely, some compromise can be found? An introductory book full of cheeserific iconic characters that we can all laugh at? Another irressistably bad novel line written under pen names, so no one has to admit they wrote that book where Hennet and Ember hooked up? Hmmm....